First build: secret model #6 - single cutaway guitar

[fender3x]

+1 for:
"... I would be a bit leery of dying and sanding back the top. Those veneers are just so delicate."

The MBM-1 I'm working on now is my first kit with a veneer top. So basically, I have NO knowledge about them

I have no successful experience with these veneers. I have two basses that had veneer tops. Both tops are now painted solid colors. In my defense, only the first one was an unintentional sand through. The second one was always going to get a solid color top because I did a bunch of mods to the top. I was not gentile with my sanding, but with that said, just the sanding I did to get it ready for the paint damaged the veneer.

On the "single cutaway" the veneer is not figured, but it is mahogany and will need grain filling. I am planning to just use stain and AquaCoat and see how little sanding I can get away with.

[brandfbr]

I have no successful experience with these veneers. I have two basses that had veneer tops. Both tops are now painted solid colors. In my defense, only the first one was an unintentional sand through. The second one was always going to get a solid color top because I did a bunch of mods to the top. I was not gentile with my sanding, but with that said, just the sanding I did to get it ready for the paint damaged the veneer.

On the "single cutaway" the veneer is not figured, but it is mahogany and will need grain filling. I am planning to just use stain and AquaCoat and see how little sanding I can get away with.

Did you sand through it while hand sanding it or were you using an electric sander? I did quite a bit of research and was getting more confident with the idea, but you've made me worried now... My idea is that by rubbing the top with a rag with metho after the dye has some time to settle in, I can remove most of the black from the grain that is on top, leaving it in the figured grain, so I end up having to sand very little...

My current plan is: no sanding at all + 2 coats of 1:5 ubeaut black dye. Then try to rub it off the best I can with a damp rag (water or method). Then ubeaut sanding sealer (1 coat) + lightly sand it (240/320), removing most of the black, then concentrated ubeaut red dye.

We'll see what happens

[fender3x]

Did you sand through it while hand sanding it or were you using an electric sander?

I never use a machine sander once I start putting any sort of finish on the guitar. For sure I would not use it on anything with a curved top or veneer. I have seen people do this on the internet, but I am ham-handed enough without the need for powertools! ;-)

My current plan is: no sanding at all + 2 coats of 1:5 ubeaut black dye. Then try to rub it off the best I can with a damp rag (water or method). Then ubeaut sanding sealer (1 coat) + lightly sand it (240/320), removing most of the black, then concentrated ubeaut red dye.

I have not used Ubeaut products, although they look great. Unfortunately, they are not available in the US to my knowledge. That said, I'll attach a video that you might want to look at before you get started. It is causing me to rethink *my* plan a bit...

The veneer is REALLY thin. Probably less that .6 mm. Maybe as little as .4mm. That's a thin business card. It won't put up with much sanding. Also, dye is not going to penetrate very far. First because the water based glue under the veneer has already penetrated from the other side, so your dye, black or red, is not going to penetrate far. I would be worried about whether it is even possible to sand back without getting down to the glue layer. If you do that, your red won't penetrate well. I also don't think there is much reason to use sanding sealer. The veneer is maple, which usually doesn't need to be sealed. Also, you can't really do much sanding.

The good thing about maple is that it is closed pore. Still the grain can raise a bit using water based products, which is why the guy in the vid suggests using alcohol (metho in Australia, I think) based dyes rather than water based.

Mine has a mahogany veneer, which is open pore. Usually I would raise the grain with a bit of water, then sand, then apply my water based dye stain. But now I am wondering if I should use colored shellac that won't raise the grain, and will mostly stay on top of the wood. Or maybe use an aniline dye. Or I may still use the water based dye, but I will definitely try to find something to practice on first.

[brandfbr]

The kit is here! The top looks very nice. Took a picture with the metho trick.

I am just puzzled by one thing: is the body missing that dent/loop or is that area supposed to be just empty between the neck and the body? The neck has some form of curve or hook, yet the body neck pocket is just straight.. is that supposed to be like that? It fits perfectly otherwise, but it seems like some wood is "missing"? Should I fill it with something?

[Trevor Davies]

The kit is here! The top looks very nice. Took a picture with the metho trick.

I am just puzzled by one thing: is the body missing that dent/loop or is that area supposed to be just empty between the neck and the body? The neck has some form of curve or hook, yet the body neck pocket is just straight.. is that supposed to be like that? It fits perfectly otherwise, but it seems like some wood is "missing"? Should I fill it with something?

Yes, it is supposed to be like that. No need to fill it. I'm not really sure why they are designed like that!

[brandfbr]

Yes, it is supposed to be like that. No need to fill it. I'm not really sure why they are designed like that!

Awesome, thanks a lot mate, I was worried there for a second.

So, I was a bit stubborn and decided not to follow your advice and went and stained the top black after watching the PRS fire red burst video. I used the ubeaut black stain in a 1:5 dilution in two coats. This was the result.

I then tried to get most of the stain off with metho, then carefully lightly sanded it back with 240, 400, and green Scotch Brite pads. I was quite conservative and stopped when I started to see some streaks of bare wood and it was grayish. Then I went with two coats of orange, then 1 coat of red (for now). I'm quite satisfied with how it's going I think, though it might be darker/blacker than I initially wanted?

[fender3x]

So, I was a bit stubborn and decided not to follow your advice and went and stained the top black after watching the PRS fire red burst video. I used the ubeaut black stain in a 1:5 dilution in two coats. This was the result.

Looking at that video now...I am always happy to have my over-caution proved wrong ;-)

FWIW you got a really cool color out of it. Not something I have seen before on this style of guitar, which makes it all the better.

[fender3x]

I'm quite satisfied with how it's going I think, though it might be darker/blacker than I initially wanted?
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You got an effect that looks a lot like the PRS. That is all the more impressive when you consider that the PRS does not have a veneer. In the vid it looks like the top is a 1/2" chunk of carved flame maple. I guess they can do that when they plan to sell it for north of $4.5K.

You may have given me the confidence to stick with my water based stain ;-)

[brandfbr]

You got an effect that looks a lot like the PRS. That is all the more impressive when you consider that the PRS does not have a veneer. In the vid it looks like the top is a 1/2" chunk of carved flame maple. I guess they can do that when they plan to sell it for north of $4.5K.

You may have given me the confidence to stick with my water based stain ;-)

My main takeaway as of now is: don't over sand. The body looked quite black/gray in the beginning, and after the first coat of orange I thought I hadn't sanded enough and that it would turn out too dark.. I just kept on putting thin coats, with more concentrated dye and the black ended up fading more into the background. The last red coat ended up being basically 1:1 water and dye.

[Trevor Davies]

The stained veneer looks great. Hopefully the clear coats will make it really pop.

FWIW, I think the black would have looked great as the final colour, and the yellow (orange!) would have looked great, and the red!