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Ok rookie mistake, I installed the bridge backwards!!
Reversed the bridge, action still high, will try to adjust the neck relief tomorrow. Hoping I don’t need a Shim, that’s completely out of my league, not that I was in any league to start with [emoji3]Quote:
Originally Posted by vivek_rc
Unfortunately your action looks high like mine was and I doubt playing with the relief will make much difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by vivek_rc
Couple of things to try
1) Buy a new lower profile bridge (I bought a musiclily one from Amazon which is lower by a few mm
2) make a shim. It is pretty easy if you follow Simons instructions on my build diary. I ended up using a bit of pine and filing it down as my bass wood disintegrated when I got it thin. The thick edge was 1.5mm high when finished.
3) recess your bridge posts (this is my backup plan if the action is still high when I install the bridge posts properly.
Everything I have read says do no mess with the neck foot pocket.
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Might go the route of the shim, I actually have some maple veneer pieces I bought from Amazon to test the stains, they are 2 mm thick. Have been reading Simons instructions on your post on how Tom make the shim, very detailed, and will have a go at it and see if I can get this to work. I’m wondering if this is a construction problem from the factory? I would think it they use CNC machines the should get the required pocket angle pretty accurate out the door?
I would try a 2mm shim first. 1.5mm is just shy of where I would like it to be. Tip - When I made mine I had 3mm piece of aluminium straight edge from Bunnings that I positioned 2x the length of the shim to get the height right. Pretty cheap and precise thickness. You will also need a roll of strong double sided tape to hid the shim in place and to tape the sand paper to something flat. I went though half a roll making my shim.Quote:
Originally Posted by vivek_rc
I have just set my neck tonight so hopefully I can get a decent action.
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(Oops - missed the new page so comments below are now retrospective).
Well, you've currently got the bridge on back-to-front, which may add a tiny bit to the string height, but not much.
You really need to clamp the fretboard as well as the tenon as even a small gap can have add a reasonable amount of action height as the neck can dip downwards. A 1mm gap at the heel with the neck angling downwards can add 3mm or more of string height at the end of the neck.
And I expect some of that height is because the nut slots are far too high. Put a capo on the firsts fret, clamp the fretboard, not the tenon (use a block of softish wood between the clamp and the fretboard, ideally with slots cut in it so you clamp the board and not the frets) and see what you get then.
After doing all of those things I expect the action will have improved but still have be high.
You can either a) make and fit an angled shim like MrPearson did to his, b) try and find a bridge that sits lower (that kit bridge is pretty tall and you can get more compact ones - though you shouldn't have to), or c) do both to be sure.
The factories don't use CNC, just hand routers, template and unskilled labour. I wish they did use CNC machines, but my theory is that the Chinese government want full employment, so stuff that can be done by hand is done by hand rather than automated machines.
I must say that your bridge looks different to MrPearson's bridge, and is a taller unit, which isn't helping things.
Thanks Simon, I’m going to get a lower profile bridge the start with, found this, which I think is the one mrpearson was talking about, will also start on a shim, based on your instructions…
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3465da17ea.jpg
Hi - looks the same as mine and also another builder (bakers dozen ) used this on the same build a few years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by vivek_rc
To be sure here is the link.
Musiclily Pro 52.5mm Pigtail... https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0757K4...p_mob_ap_share
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Thanks mate, placed the order and should be here by Friday, in the meantime will attempt the shim.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpearson
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[mention]mrpearson [/mention] Hi mate, had a question on the Shim you made, wanted to ask what was the thickness at the higher end of the shim you made?
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That's the bridge I used on my GSJ-1 build. I ended up fitting the saddles from the kit bridge to it as the saddles on the replacement were so low that there was almost no break angle on them and the strings were buzzing slightly in the slots. Dealt with here and in the next few posts below that.
https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...l=1#post203149
Cutout my Shim from a 2mm thick maple veneer. Does it look ok?
Understand Simons instructions and also saw a YouTube video from Crimson guitars that describes the process.
Only question is my veneer is 2mm, so once I sand it down it would be 2mm on the high side, would that be too high? I could sand the veneer flat till I get approx 1 mm.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...eadc463726.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d845e2ac68.jpg
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I'd start high and dry-fit the neck and see where you are. You can always sand it down a bit more if necessary to avoid the bridge sitting too high.
Thanks Simon, will start the process and come back with an update by end of the week. New bridge will hopefully come on FridayQuote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
Hi - my thick end was 1.5mm. I would recommend aiming for 2mm assuming your neck is the same as mine. Will give you a fraction more adjustment if you want a super low action. At 1.5mm and with a lower nut I reckon I should be fine. Give me 24hrs and I plan to install the bridge posts and check to see whether I have been successful.Quote:
Originally Posted by vivek_rc
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Thanks mate, good luck!Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpearson
Hi Guys
Made my shim, and have gotten it to a slight incline (had very good double sided tape, so good it snapped the shim clean in half when trying to take it off the bench top!), it was a clean snap so managed to fit it into the pocket and it is flat. Mounted the neck and now the action on the 12th fret is considerably lower. Without shim is the top photo.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2d4c81366d.jpg
However there is a gap at the heel, and wondering if it is something to be concerned about?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fa1c0564ca.jpg
Waiting for my new wrap around bridge to come and will mount again to see how it looks.
As for the shim, will glue it together! [emoji3]
Looking at the side view pic, I’d say that the body end of the shim needs to be twice as tall as it is at present. Fancy making another shim?
Hi Simon, currently the Shim on the body end is 2mmQuote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a3684d1b5d.jpg
So do I need a veneer 4mm thick so that it’s double in height ? Do I glue two 2mm veneers together to get the 4mm?
Here’s a side profile of my shim
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7a5f1b72b7.jpg
It’s almost impossible to get a joint without a small gap as you invariably end up with the ends on the shim slightly rounded over. Glue will fill the gap. It may pay to glue the shim with a slight lip over the front on the pocket and then sand back flush.
Also glue the neck in place with a lot of clamping force to minimise the gap. Always use some wood between the clamp and the body or neck to spread the load as even the rubber bits on the clamp can mark the wood if sufficient force is applied. I’ve ended up with an assortment of 4mm thick MDF shapes as clamping blocks for mist body clamping jobs as it’s still relatively soft so unlikely to mark the body (especialy if it has finish on), plus a few hardwood blocks for those awkward areas where you can only fit one clamp in but want to press down really hard over a larger area.
It’s the height difference between the ends, rather than the absolute height, that determines the angle of the shim. So it looks like you’ve got a shim that goes from approx. 1mm to 2mm, so a 1mm shim. You look as if a 1mm to 3mm shim would be best for you. So if necessary, glue two pieces of the wood together to allow you to make the bigger shim.
You could simply try fitting a flat 2mm thick shim under the wedged shim to raise the whole neck up a bit, (it looks like 2mm should do it) but you then end up with a 3mm block of wood at the neck pocket that you need to hide and blend in.
Cool, thanks Simon. I’ll cut up another veneer same shape as the current shim and glue them together. Will then test the neck for again. Thanks for all the help!! Will come back with some feedback in a few daysQuote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
Vivek. I have set my neck with my 1.5mm shim and pretty sure my action is ok now. Remember the kit bridge is a few mm higher than the one you have on order (it is huge)Quote:
Originally Posted by vivek_rc
I also slightly recessed the bridge post opening with a bit of sandpaper so the bridge posts are flush with the body when installed. (Installed these today and they look awesome and gets me a few mm). With my bridge mounted I can run a straight end from the low e saddle across the 1 fret and 22nd with pretty much very minimal gap at the 22nd fret.
Once I lower my nut during setup I reckon I will be raising my bridge up to get the correct action.
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Hey mrpearson, thanks for the advice, will wait to install the new bridge once it arrives and check how the 1mm shim I’ve made alters the action.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpearson
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a1b4c0b623.jpg
Here is a side by side comparison for you.
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Wow, that’s big difference, doesn’t look like I’d need the extra shim under the one I made!Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpearson
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You'll find the new saddle tips forwards on the posts. I used some locking post studs on mine to keep it as flat as possible, but it will still tilt slightly. Which then means that the strings have no break angle on the low saddles and is why I swapped the saddles over from the kit ridge top the new one. It's not a 100% perfect fit, but with strings on they felt solid enough.
And try not to have the two bridge positioning screws that stick out the rear screwed in at all if you can help it. There should be more than enough adjustment in the saddles so you won't need the bridge pulled back further at all. They make the bridge even more wobbly and less connected to the posts when used. I think I removed the screws completely. They seem to be a hangover kept from early days with just the stop bar or fixed intonation bridges.
Thanks for the advice Simon, will definitely factor them in when I reach those stages. I do see those bridge positioning screws cause the tilting in the bridge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
If only the bridge pieces in the Musiclily bridge were even 1mm higher it would be a super bit of kit.
Simon is this what you mean when talking about locking post studsQuote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
KAISH Guitar Locking Tailpiece Mounting Studs Locking Stop Bar Posts Wraparound Bridge Locking Posts Chrome https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B07WDB6...H9GPQS1K?psc=1
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Yes, just that sort of thing. I used the Tone Pros version because I was running out of time to finish the guitar (it was a present to a friend) and I could get those quickest, with a 2-3 week wait for the cheaper versions.
Hi Guys, Got my new warparound bridge and the action has now come down a lot. With the shim in place the strings were hitting the frets, so have removed the shim, and action looks good to me..https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9210cb7c3e.jpg
Top photo, new bridge with no shim, second photo with shim and original bridge, bottom no shim original bridge. Doesn’t look like I need a shim now?
The action is still higher in the second picture than I’d use myself. You could sand the shim a little, but I’d have it so that I could always set the action lower if I wanted to, rather than be unable to lower the bridge any further as it’s already on the body. Full string tension will pull the rear of the bridge forwards, even with locking studs, which angles the bridge and raises the string height slightly. IMO it’s better to have the bridge 2mm off the body and then be able to adjust to any desired action.
I agree with Simon. I'd rather have my starting point too low and the ability to raise the action, than the other way around.
Hi Simone, MCreed
will do, I’ll place the Shim and lockdown the neck properly and check the action, will then sand down the shim accordingly. I’ve also ordered those locking nuts for the bridge…[emoji3]arriving in Feb sometime though [emoji52]
Thanks again for all the guidance guys, much appreciated!
If you can get the strings just touching the frets at minimum height, you should be fine.
Also, your height comparison pics have all been on the bass side. You’ll want a lower action on the treble side and there is probably a very slight neck twist. Not enough to affect playing but it can lead to an imbalance in action heights between the treble and bass sides with the bridge fully lowered, so check both sides of the neck.