Paulownia Precision

[fender3x]

Well, McCreed, you inspired me to do more reading and youtube viewing...and as usual that confused me.

The makers of my stain (General Finishes) suggested adding 10% of their topcoat. They say that this will "lock in the color to reduce color pull when you apply the first clear coat."

Meanwhile the makers of Aqua Coat say that when using a water based dye stain it's best to seal with dewaxed shellac or one of their sealers before using their grain filler. I figured I'd try it both ways to see what works best, and so am prepping some test pieces.



My kids are no longer breaking boards in TKD, but I have a few paulownia boards left from when they did. My earlier tests produced decent results without a seal coat, but it should be interesting to see the comparison. Reports to follow...

I have a little 1lb blond shellac from experiments on some maple scraps to see what it would do to the color of a maple neck. Other than that I have never really used it. Hoping it's forgiving. Also hoping it won't yellow the stain.

[McCreed]

I'll be interested in your results. If for nothing else than my own edification.

I would expect at least a little bit of lift even with the shellac, but it shouldn't be drastic and is completely manageable with careful application. This is what I've experienced with both hand-applied poly and Tru Oil over both water based and alcohol based dyes.
It generally has stopped lifting (98%) after the 2nd coat has dried.

I should say that by "lift" (colour pull) it has not been a total smearing or smudging of the base colour, but a noticeable transference of colour to the rag I'm applying the top coat with. It's important to get nice even coats and not allow winrows to be left behind. This will result in a streaky appearance.

Again, interested in what your experience is.

[fender3x]

I'll be interested in your results. If for nothing else than my own edification.

I would expect at least a little bit of lift even with the shellac, but it shouldn't be drastic and is completely manageable with careful application.

This is what I found with my initial experiments where I used the stain without top coat added or any sort of sealer. I just waited 72 hrs. There was some lift, but if I used small amounts of the Aqua Coat at a time I was able to work it back in and avoid much change in the color.

I am curious to see if the lift is significantly different with the 10% top coat added to the stain. I didn't A/B test, but application seemed about the same. There may have been a difference in the viscosity of the stain, but at most it was small.

Also curious to see if there is a noticeable difference in the color or lift adding the shellac. Just did the "drop" test, and it seems that I have enough 1lb shellac for the test. Will go back over the notes that I think I took from one of your posts on how to apply it ;-)

...And I'll report back.

[fender3x]

I'll be interested in your results. If for nothing else than my own edification.

Some test results in. I smeared a little of what was left on my applicator (a hotel key-card) onto a paper towel to give an idea of the amount of color lift.



With the first coat it seemed comparable, with maybe a slight edge to the shellac. This was consistent with every application. Shellac side did a bit better on color lift, but not dramatically different. In both cases color lift was manageable.



Both boards were stained with 90% General finishes Dye Stain + 10% General Finishes High Performance Top Coat. Each received 3 coats of stain applied with a foam brush. After 72 hours the top of the board on the right got one coat of 1lb shellac, and the bottom got two coats. They were left to dry an additional 24 before grain filling. Each board received 4 coats of Aqua Coat clear grain filler. applied with a hotel key card.

Looking at the two sample boards, there is not a lot of difference. Certainly not much that shows up in the pic. There are some subtle differences. Subtle enough that I am not sure how real they are. It seems to me that the shellac may have lightened the color just a bit..but if that's true, why can't I tell the difference between one and two coats? With the first couple of coats, it seemed to me that the surface of the non-shellac board felt a bit rougher. I scuff sanded in-between each coat very lightly with 220. It could be that a bit more of the grain filler soaked in to the non-shellac board. I thought that I might need an extra coat of grain filler on the non-shellac board, but by coat four the two boards seem pretty comparable. On a bass body I would do at least one more, and maybe more, coats to make sure the pores were as closed as possible before top coating.

I think you'd be safe doing it either with or without shellac. The shellac may have colored the wood a little, but you'd need the boards side by side to be sure. Shellac may reduce the color pull by a little, but not by much. What you can't see in the pic is that the shellac board is slightly shinier than the stain only board. The latter is sort of mottled or shiny depending where you look. But when I look at the dull spots, they look exactly like a piece I stained that has no filler. The shine is coming either from the filler or from the the shellac, so that may be a difference without a distinction.

So the results of my tests don't give much guidance. If you like to seal with shellac, it won't hurt to do so. If you don't want to use shellac that seems fine. I am not even sure how I am going to proceed, let alone how to advise anyone else.

The only solid finding from my experiments today was serendipitous. The shellac I had left over darkened at test piece of maple I cut from the headstock rather nicely. So, I have made up another 4oz batch that I will surely use on something...

[fender3x]

Made another ugly jig, this time to test the melding of bridge to body. I stacked 5 paulownia TKD boards to replicate the thickness of a bass body. I just screwed them together so there is no glue or finish in the wood to harden it and skew the results.

Screws went in just like any other wood. Used my normal non-stripping protocol. Tighten until the screw stops using index finger and thumb on a standard sized screwdriver.

Made an unattractive hole for the string through ferrules, and attached the paulownia and bridge to the jig.

Strung it with a mismatched set of old bass strings. Sting length is 34". Turned it three half steps high to increase string tension. Tugged on it a bit. Will pick away at it over the next few days, and leave it strung.

No issues so far. Bridge seems solid. Ferrules nicely seated without trying to pull in too deeply.
So far, so good.



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[fender3x]

Still no issues after close to a month. After 11 days or so, I switched from string-through to string-on-top to see if that would pull out the bridge. It hasn't budged even held just by 4 relatively thin screws.



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I have "played" it every couple of days and banged it around, stretched the strings, ets. The low E string is tuned to C, and the other strings in 4ths above that to put higher string tension on. I have to tune it every few days because, while the paulownia seems OK, the 5/8" plywood that it's screwed to has warped a bit. I am feeling better about the structural integrity of the paulownia tho...

[Trevor Davies]

A jig! This could be a new lapsteel

[fender3x]

World's ugliest bass lap steel. May have to see how it sounds ;-)

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[Rabbit]

[QUOTE=fender3x;208423]World's ugliest bass lap steel. May have to see how it sounds ;-)[ /QUOTE]

Oh nos! @fender3x is channeling @FrankenWashie!

[FrankenWashie]

[QUOTE=Rabbit;208424]

World's ugliest bass lap steel. May have to see how it sounds ;-)[ /QUOTE]

Oh nos! @fender3x is channeling @FrankenWashie!

As Igor often says, “Beauty ith in the eye (or eyeth) of the beholder”. Given his eyes are at differing heights I’m not so sure.
slap a pickup and some controls on it and you’re done right?