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Thread: Astracaster First Build FS-1

  1. #171
    GAStronomist Simon Barden's Avatar
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    Don’t sand the shellac. You are building up protective layers of shellac between the stain and the clear coat, so the clear coat only touches the shellac, not the wood. If you keep removing the shellac by sanding, you defeat the whole purpose of using the shellac.

    Yes, you want a dust-free environment, or at least a still-air one. It is always best to spray outside if possible as any aerosol paint spray is bad for you. But any separate space like a garage or shed is fine. I made up a wooden frame to hang my guitars from for spraying and used a pop-up toilet tent to spray in. Others have used portable fabric-sided clothes wardrobes (these come with a hanging rail built-in). I close the flap immediately after spraying for 5 minutes, so the surface hardens enough to not pick-up dust, and then open the flap for ventilation and to help prevent heat build-up. If you have a suitable room for spraying, you can get lightweight clothes hanging rails on wheels that go high enough to hang a guitar from. If you have a wooden beam in a garage or out-building, you could use a screw-in eyelet to hang the guitar from using stiff wire or thick string.

    I generally use a big stainless steel S-hook intended for hanging up kitchen utensils to hang up a guitar by a tuner hole. It needs to be big enough so the curve of the hook only touches the tuner hole at the very edges so you can spray behind it on both sides of the headstock.

    Or you can use a screw-eye in the rear strap button position (make sure the screw thread is a bit smaller than the strap button screw that will replace it) to hang it upside-down.

    Others have used a G-clamp that’s clamped between the two pickup routs to give them something to hang the body from.

    I started out using a boom microphone stand, but the boom arm often sagged under the weight and as it sags, the guitar moves away from the central upright, and the stand becomes unstable and can topple. Whatever you use to hang from needs to be stable.

    But you need to be aware of the temperature. You really don’t want it below say 15°C or above 30°C. And in the sun my toilet tent gets much warmer inside when closed-up (my first tent was dark green and got really warm but my current one is silver/white and reflects a lot of heat).

    You’ll probably want six good coats of clear before proper sanding.

    Follow the manufacturer’s instructions for re-coat times. I’m more familiar with nitro, but the acrylic clear spray I used recently was within 30 minutes or wait 24 hours with a very light sand. Poly and acrylic don’t have aggressive solvents like nitro does, so need to be sprayed either on a slightly wet surface to bond with the layer below, or on to a dry surface that’s had a light fine sand to give it something to grab on to. If you wait and sand, then you’ll need more layers of clear. But you normally only want to apply a maximum of three layers a day, so I’d suggest three coats within the manufacturer’s re-coat period, then wait a day, a light sand (just to give a surface to key to) and then three more coats.

    I wouldn’t worry about runs until the final sand. Being thick they take a couple of days to dry enough to sand back. You don’t want to sand a run shortly after spraying as it will be wet inside and is likely to leave a hollow as a result (though that may just be nitro). But even so, it’s easier to sand dry clear coat!

    Dust and insects are another matter. Any significant dust or insect attachment needs to be removed before the next coat goes on. But the more you sand to remove these items, the more layers you’ll want to apply.

    Final sanding and polishing can be a 2-stage process. I like to leave the clear coat to dry for a few days, and then give it an initial sand with P600 to a flat surface; no dips, bumps or ‘orange peel’. If I have any runs to remove, then I will use P240 just on the run areas first. This will give the finish a much greater surface area, which should allow any remaining solvent to escape more easily.

    The longer you wait before the final sanding and polishing stages, the harder the finish will be and the better the shine (a 2K finish is the exception where I believe you should be able to do it after a day - though I’ve never used it so this may be incorrect).

    I almost always wet sand. I’ve tried dry sanding and will sometimes dry sand a small area like a headstock. But you will get balls of finish clogging the paper and these can scratch the finish if you don’t remove them or keep changing paper.

    If you wet sand, you will need to make sure that the edges of any post, pot, switch or jack holes are sealed with either sufficient finish or wax, otherwise the water will get in, expand the wood and the finish around the holes can crack.

  2. Liked by: david bodycomb

  3. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Barden View Post
    Don’t sand the shellac. You are building up protective layers of shellac between the stain and the clear coat, so the clear coat only touches the shellac, not the wood. If you keep removing the shellac by sanding, you defeat the whole purpose of using the shellac.

    Yes, you want a dust-free environment, or at least a still-air one. It is always best to spray outside if possible as any aerosol paint spray is bad for you. But any separate space like a garage or shed is fine. I made up a wooden frame to hang my guitars from for spraying and used a pop-up toilet tent to spray in. Others have used portable fabric-sided clothes wardrobes (these come with a hanging rail built-in). I close the flap immediately after spraying for 5 minutes, so the surface hardens enough to not pick-up dust, and then open the flap for ventilation and to help prevent heat build-up. If you have a suitable room for spraying, you can get lightweight clothes hanging rails on wheels that go high enough to hang a guitar from. If you have a wooden beam in a garage or out-building, you could use a screw-in eyelet to hang the guitar from using stiff wire or thick string.

    I generally use a big stainless steel S-hook intended for hanging up kitchen utensils to hang up a guitar by a tuner hole. It needs to be big enough so the curve of the hook only touches the tuner hole at the very edges so you can spray behind it on both sides of the headstock.

    Or you can use a screw-eye in the rear strap button position (make sure the screw thread is a bit smaller than the strap button screw that will replace it) to hang it upside-down.

    Others have used a G-clamp that’s clamped between the two pickup routs to give them something to hang the body from.

    I started out using a boom microphone stand, but the boom arm often sagged under the weight and as it sags, the guitar moves away from the central upright, and the stand becomes unstable and can topple. Whatever you use to hang from needs to be stable.

    But you need to be aware of the temperature. You really don’t want it below say 15°C or above 30°C. And in the sun my toilet tent gets much warmer inside when closed-up (my first tent was dark green and got really warm but my current one is silver/white and reflects a lot of heat).

    You’ll probably want six good coats of clear before proper sanding.

    Follow the manufacturer’s instructions for re-coat times. I’m more familiar with nitro, but the acrylic clear spray I used recently was within 30 minutes or wait 24 hours with a very light sand. Poly and acrylic don’t have aggressive solvents like nitro does, so need to be sprayed either on a slightly wet surface to bond with the layer below, or on to a dry surface that’s had a light fine sand to give it something to grab on to. If you wait and sand, then you’ll need more layers of clear. But you normally only want to apply a maximum of three layers a day, so I’d suggest three coats within the manufacturer’s re-coat period, then wait a day, a light sand (just to give a surface to key to) and then three more coats.

    I wouldn’t worry about runs until the final sand. Being thick they take a couple of days to dry enough to sand back. You don’t want to sand a run shortly after spraying as it will be wet inside and is likely to leave a hollow as a result (though that may just be nitro). But even so, it’s easier to sand dry clear coat!

    Dust and insects are another matter. Any significant dust or insect attachment needs to be removed before the next coat goes on. But the more you sand to remove these items, the more layers you’ll want to apply.

    Final sanding and polishing can be a 2-stage process. I like to leave the clear coat to dry for a few days, and then give it an initial sand with P600 to a flat surface; no dips, bumps or ‘orange peel’. If I have any runs to remove, then I will use P240 just on the run areas first. This will give the finish a much greater surface area, which should allow any remaining solvent to escape more easily.

    The longer you wait before the final sanding and polishing stages, the harder the finish will be and the better the shine (a 2K finish is the exception where I believe you should be able to do it after a day - though I’ve never used it so this may be incorrect).

    I almost always wet sand. I’ve tried dry sanding and will sometimes dry sand a small area like a headstock. But you will get balls of finish clogging the paper and these can scratch the finish if you don’t remove them or keep changing paper.

    If you wet sand, you will need to make sure that the edges of any post, pot, switch or jack holes are sealed with either sufficient finish or wax, otherwise the water will get in, expand the wood and the finish around the holes can crack.
    Thank you Simon for such a detailed post. I will try to print the post and get the whole thing into my small brain and then see how to go about it.

    Is 1k PU clear inferior and not durable?.. Almost everyone here uses 2k clear. There is this one

    https://amzn.eu/d/9zLMDl7

    Which is available now. I am not sure how good are these. Is it better that i go for these or stick to 1k PU clear that i posted a pic earlier?


    As for the hanging part. I have an old bathroom at my parents home that we don't use anymore. I am planning to use it as a spray booth if I get a nod from my parents to use it.

    The problem in india is that all structures are concrete and it's not easy to fix any clamp as DIY



    I went to hardware stores to get these hooks which i thought I can use it in place of where bottom strap pin will be anchored and try to use these somehow hang the guitar to spray. But these don't swivel around. I may need something like these

    https://amzn.eu/d/6UFSBXc

    To hang the guitar from concrete

    These single pole cloth stands are available in amazon
    https://amzn.eu/d/8iM9NqC

    Also these dress change tents are available

    https://amzn.eu/d/8lmL30l

    I'm not sure if these has the capability to support weight of guitar and howI can hang the guitar upside down in these

    Sent from my NE2211 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Drashkum; 17-09-2023 at 05:49 PM.

  4. #173
    Moderator fender3x's Avatar
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    I think Simon has used a tent like that.

    I would be tempted to stand the guitar rather than hang it. You could do something similar to what I did with the last iteration of my "guitar rotisserie" I wanted to be able to rotate it...which you might not need to do in your parents' bathroom.

    (last pic on this page): https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...?t=9712&page=5

    I used a couple of electrical junction boxes, a couple of hose clamps a round wooden rod left over from a closet remodel. If I had been spraying I would most likely have made it vertical. It would have been easy enough to make a base for it out of PVC pipe or other suitable material so that you can turn it while you spray.

    If you really want to hang it, this is sold (at least in the US) in places where you buy paint:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    https://images.thdstatic.com/product...nv-64_1000.jpg

  5. #174
    @fender3x although I am tempted by the video of Guitar Rotisserie, the problem is because I have glued the neck. So my only option is to either lay it flat and spray the lazy Susan way or to hand the guitar by eyelet hook in place of strap pin.

    From my next build I shall first stain and finish the neck and body before gluing it up.


    I am in process of sourcing these for hanging the guitar

    1 This for attaching it in humbucker cavity rout for More control while spraying the back



    2. For hanging guitar from ceiling




    3 For secure clamping. But the diameter of the screw is 4mm. So i may need to drill with a 3.2mm drill bit. So the Hole could be considerable larger than what the screw is for strap pin



    4 This is an orthopaedic leg attachment. We drive a pin through the heel bone and use this to attach the leg to orthopaedic table for traction. This I though may be I can use with Chopsticks to hand the guitar by tuner hole




    I really hope these works. Or I may have to find a Lazy Susan way

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    Last edited by Drashkum; 21-09-2023 at 11:18 AM.

  6. #175
    Moderator fender3x's Avatar
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    If you can find a big hook that will fit through a tuning machine hole. That's really all you need. I used a paint bucket hook like the one in my pic with my first build where, like you, I had glued the neck prior to clear coating. The hook needs a swivel if you want to be able to turn the guitar. If there is room in your painting space to walk around the guitar it may not need the swivel.

    I was not suggesting that you should use a rotisserie like mine. Maybe this pic will help...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The pole is attached to electrical junction boxes (but could be a piece of steel or other material), that I screwed into one of the pickup cavities.

    The pole could be put into a base, like a patio umbrella stand or something cobbled together.

    Not really advocating for this approach. A hook should work fine. The advantage to the stand is that it's more stable. It won't swing on a stand. The disadvantage is that it would be overkill if a simple hook suspended from the ceiling will work.

  7. #176




    Finally installed the Hook in the bathroom. @fender3x as u say its got a 360 degree swivel.

    I am trying to buy a rope or shackle or a set of Carbiner to hook on to this to that guitar hangs much lower down for me to spray

    I am yet to brill for the Eyelet hook on the guitar at the lower strap position. The eyelet hook pitch is 4mm. I need atleast a 3.2 drill bit for the hole. But this is much bigger than what I would drill for the strap button screw. If I choose to drill bigger I may have to dowel it and re drill for strap button.

    Also what about screw holes for humbuckers and pickguard. So i need to do that before the clear coats? Or drilling them after clearcoat will cause some damage to clearcoat?


    Cheers drashkum

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  8. #177
    Moderator Trevor Davies's Avatar
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    The hook looks good! Are you going to cover the walls and floor with a tarp' before spraying?

    I'm not sure if I would want to dowel the strap button hole after the clear coats!

    As for the other screw holes, I think most people would spray the clear coats, polish the body, then drill the holes. Any damage would be under the pup surrounds or the pickguard. I have completed a build where I drilled the holes before the clear coats - and no damage was done! But, I had to seal the holes with wax before the wet polish to avoid water getting into the holes and swelling the wood!

    I'm sure Simon has commented on this just recently - but I cannot find the post.
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  9. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor Davies View Post
    The hook looks good! Are you going to cover the walls and floor with a tarp' before spraying?

    I'm not sure if I would want to dowel the strap button hole after the clear coats!

    As for the other screw holes, I think most people would spray the clear coats, polish the body, then drill the holes. Any damage would be under the pup surrounds or the pickguard. I have completed a build where I drilled the holes before the clear coats - and no damage was done! But, I had to seal the holes with wax before the wet polish to avoid water getting into the holes and swelling the wood!

    I'm sure Simon has commented on this just recently - but I cannot find the post.
    I have stuck newspapers all around as have no provision to hang tarp in the already small bathroom.

    As for the eyelet screw... The screw which i have are of 4 sizes as below














    I am not sure which one to use. The smallest one is so small but this what has the pitch if the strap button screw which is about 1.5mm in diameter. But that is not long enough to go into wood. So i am not sure if it will hold guitar enough through the spraying process when guitar is hung upside down

    The Medium ones are about same diameter but one has thread for 16mm and Other 20mm. Smaller one has a safety lock

    The biggest one is 5mm in diameter and has 23mm of thread.

    Can anyone recommend me how long thread should be inside the wood for proper hold? And if I can dowel or use a toothpick afterwards and glue and redrill to use a strap button screw?

    Sent from my NE2211 using Tapatalk

  10. #179
    Moderator fender3x's Avatar
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    I typically don't drill first, because I use a water based finish. McCreed uses an oil based finish and always drills first. If you plan to do that, reading his posts might be a good idea.

    I personally would not hesitate to use a screw that is a little big, even if it meant using a dowel once finished. As long as your strap button completely covers the dowel no one but you will ever know it's there. That would not bother me, but if it bothers you because you will know, then it's a factor (and you will not be alone ;-) ). That said, any of the screws you showed are probably adequate to bear the weight, which will not be all that much with all the hardware off.

    I'd probably use the black screw, because I would be more afraid of the guitar getting jostled and falling off than I would be that the screw will pull out. I would not want to use an open screw unless it was really big for this reason. With a smaller screw, I'd rather have one like the black one or even an eyelet.

    Your idea to use a carabiner to secure the hook/eyelet to the ceiling eyelet is a good one, I think. It's bigger, and will provide a much more secure way of mounting and removing the guitar from the rope and eyelet than fiddling with the little device on the hook.

  11. Liked by: Drashkum

  12. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by fender3x View Post
    I typically don't drill first, because I use a water based finish. McCreed uses an oil based finish and always drills first. If you plan to do that, reading his posts might be a good idea.

    I'd probably use the black screw, because I would be more afraid of the guitar getting jostled and falling off than I would be that the screw will pull out. I would not want to use an open screw unless it was really big for this reason. With a smaller screw, I'd rather have one like the black one or even an eyelet.

    Your idea to use a carabiner to secure the hook/eyelet to the ceiling eyelet is a good one, I think. It's bigger, and will provide a much more secure way of mounting and removing the guitar from the rope and eyelet than fiddling with the little device on the hook.
    Thank you @fender3x. I have to definitely do some wetsanding. So will reserve the holes for Pickups for Later date.

    Based on your advise have fixed the black eyelet screw


    Finally the spraying setup is coming up well. Have done a trial hanging and I think it's all ok



    I am waiting for these 2 to come to strart spraying the clearcoat



    Any final tips and tricks?

    Wish me luck

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    Last edited by Drashkum; 26-09-2023 at 12:06 AM.

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