It was a while ago, but I sanded the veneer a bit before staining, probably with 180. Which is probably what I used for subsequent sanding.Originally Posted by Drashkum
120 is generally recommended, to receive the stain evenly. And 240 is generally not recommended, because it can make the surface too smooth you receive the stain evenly. I’m a rebel, so I went 180 (I think).
All hand sanded.
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180? really? ... They usually say light sand with 320 or 400 as it is a paperthin veneer.... 180 is too rough I thought...
That blue effect is something else, awesome look, the grain pattern is beautiful, highlighting it with the black base was meant to happen. Great work.
You shouldn't need to sand the veneer at all. If you've wet it and raised the grain, then all you need is a 'drag sand', literally just pulling some sandpaper across at one edge so it catches and pulls off the loose fibres. P320 or P400 would work for that.
Pressing down with P320 or P400 on veneer would be likely to close up the grain so stain take-up would be patchy.
You wouldn't normally choose to use P180 on veneer, but in Dozy's case it worked. You do need a very light touch though.
That's why I was shocked when dozy said 180. I want to base stain my build black and the sand back and do the colours. I am so afraid that i might sand through. So i have been postponing the staining and doing other things on the build until I get some confidence.
Dozys grain pop has come out amazingly well.
Is there a method to this madness of base staining a thin veneer or should I abandon the thought and do only colours and Burst?
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I did it to my first ES-1 build. Looking back, it looks like I also used P180.
https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...l=1#post160155
You just don't want to use too concentrated a stain, enough to provide some darkness, but not enough so that you need to sand too much off to expose some unstained wood. You've got maybe a 0.6mm thick veneer, so can really only sand 0.1mm off before things start getting risky.
I started sanding a flame maple top on a Telecaster body that I'd bought off eBay that had been stained pretty much solid black. I thought it was 3mm maple cap (as it had black binding and it just looked like a solid top), so sanded without thought until I started to get some pale wood showing. Unfortunately the pale wood was the body underneath the thin veneer, and in an attempt to sand away the solid black, I'd gone right through. So the veneer got sanded off and I just stained the alder body.
How the flame/quilt looks after trying to 'pop' the grain is all down to the depth and quality of the flame/quilt in the veneer. Dozy had a superb bit of quilt on his guitar. A good bit of flame/quilt will look good even without 'popping' it with a darker colour. But I've had 'flame' maple with hardly any flame in it, and even that was patchy.
After reading through many threads I arrived at these take home points for base black stain on a thin veneer.
1. I must dilute the black before applying. The black must be just enough to stain the open end grain and not the closed face grain ( 1 part dye to 5 parts alcohol in my case which i have found out by staining scrap. It may differ with people)
2. Just apply 1 thin single pass /coat so that it doesn't soak in too much. Wring the cloth and remove the excess stain before applying
3. Applying a damp rag before base staining a black would fill the pores so that black doesnt penetrate too much?
4. Take off the excess black using acetone or Denatured alcohol first.
4. No pre sanding. Sanding with 320 or 400 is better on a sponge than a wooden block so as to drag sand the raised grain rather than sanding 0.1mm of veneer although People Have had success with 180grit too...
Is this ok @Simon Barden. Should i go this way?
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There are no guarantees, but with the black stain, too little is always better than too much.
The more black you put on, the darker the main stain will be, so if you want say a light and bright red, then it’s probably best to leave out the black stage.
I only did it once myself, so I’m no expert.
Any sanding of veneer needs to be gentle. Yes, you want to remove the top layer of stained wood, but no more than that. Using a fine grit makes it easier to do so, but you also risk making the surface too closed to take the next layer of stain well. The surface of the veneer is already flat and ‘level’ i.e. it doesn’t have dips and ridges (or it shouldn’t have). The surface doesn’t need to be super-smooth at this stage. That will come after you put the final clear coats on.
Understand what you are trying to achieve with each step. There are several ways each one can be accomplished, so choose a method you’re happy with.
"Understand what you are trying to achieve with each step. There are several ways each one can be accomplished, so choose a method you’re happy with."
Solid advice.
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