NON PBG Guitar wiring help

Hi all,

I'm fixing this guitar up for a friend and I though it would be easier to recplace all the parts apart from the pickups.
I hope I'm posting this in the correct area because this guitar isn't from Pitbull Guitars however I recently bought some parts from PBG and I'm having a bit of trouble doing the wiring.

The guitar configuration is as follows:
1 x bridge humbucker, 1 x neck humbucker
1 x volume
1 x tone
3 way switch.

Adam said this diagram should be suitable for wiring: https://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-co..._tele_2014.pdf

However I am unsure how to wire the 3 way switch because it has 8 contact points on the one I bought and the above diagram has 7 on it.

I would appreciate some help on this thank you.

Regards,

Alkay.

You could try this wiring diagram from DiMarzio for a 2 HB, 1 vol, 1 tone, 3-way blade switch guitar. It's from their excellent wiring diagram collection.

There are also wiring diagrams at Guitar Electronics but I find them harder to read.

Good luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jugglindan

You could try this wiring diagram from DiMarzio for a 2 HB, 1 vol, 1 tone, 3-way blade switch guitar. It's from their excellent wiring diagram collection.

There are also wiring diagrams at Guitar Electronics but I find them harder to read.

Good luck!

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Thanks mate I'm not the best with doing the wiring. I did have a look but I'm not understanding that configuration where the hot and ground go from the pickups however the PBG diagram is good to follow.

Also, Here is a picture of the switch

Attachment 34633

Regards,
Alkay

That is a standard 3 way switch that matches the DiMarzio diagram. The "hot wire (white)" on the Pitbull diagram is the same as the red wires in the DiMarzio diagram. The bare wires from both pickups should be soldered to ground on the case of one of the pots.

Try using the Pitbull diagram for all the wiring except for the switch. For the switch, use the DiMarzio diagram I linked. It has two wires coming in from the pickups (this is the hot wire, white on Pitbull kit humbuckers), and one wire coming out (marked "v" on the DiMarzio diagram, the blue wire in the Pitbull diagram). This is the wire that goes into the volume/tone circuit.

Another confusing point is that the Pitbull diagram has the blue wire going to tone first and then volume. The DiMarzio diagram has volume first. This order doesn't matter.

If that is still confusing I can try to make a composite wiring diagram, showing the 8-terminal switch wiring in the Pitbull diagram.

Also, what pickups are you using? Can you put a photo here showing the wires? It will help to know if they have 2 or 4 wires, and what colour they are.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jugglindan

That is a standard 3 way switch that matches the DiMarzio diagram. The "hot wire (white)" on the Pitbull diagram is the same as the red wires in the DiMarzio diagram. The bare wires from both pickups should be soldered to ground on the case of one of the pots.

Try using the Pitbull diagram for all the wiring except for the switch. For the switch, use the DiMarzio diagram I linked. It has two wires coming in from the pickups (this is the hot wire, white on Pitbull kit humbuckers), and one wire coming out (marked "v" on the DiMarzio diagram, the blue wire in the Pitbull diagram). This is the wire that goes into the volume/tone circuit.

Another confusing point is that the Pitbull diagram has the blue wire going to tone first and then volume. The DiMarzio diagram has volume first. This order doesn't matter.

If that is still confusing I can try to make a composite wiring diagram, showing the 8-terminal switch wiring in the Pitbull diagram.

Also, what pickups are you using? Can you put a photo here showing the wires? It will help to know if they have 2 or 4 wires, and what colour they are.

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Hi jugglindan, thanks for the reply. Sounds like it makes a little bit more sense but yeah if you can do a quick modified version of the PBG diagram with the Dmarzio one you gave me the link to that would be great. I don't want to get it wrong and then have to remove the solder and try and do it all again.

Here is the humbuckers from the front. I cant really show a picture of the wiring cavity yet because it is all still connected and looks a bit like a birds nest.

Neck pickup - one bare wire, one white coated wire

Bridge pickup - one bare wire, one white coated wire

Attachment 34636

Ok not the best photo but see if you can see this mess :)

Attachment 34637

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alkay

Ok not the best photo but see if you can see this mess :)

Attachment 34637

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OK, so you have just two output wires, that simplifies things a bit. Your white wire is the hot output wire from the pickup, and the bare wires will go to ground.

Is that photo of the wiring that you are replacing? Are you replacing everything? If so, then you don't really need to worry about what's currently there.

I will make the wiring diagram later today.

DC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jugglindan

OK, so you have just two output wires, that simplifies things a bit. Your white wire is the hot output wire from the pickup, and the bare wires will go to ground.

Is that photo of the wiring that you are replacing? Are you replacing everything? If so, then you don't really need to worry about what's currently there.

I will make the wiring diagram later today.

DC

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Ok cool thanks, a diagram would help if it's not too much trouble and I'm happy to wait :) thank you.
Yes thats the existing wiring I am replacing. I decided it's probably best to replace everything with the parts I got from PBG and I wasn't sure how to use a multimeter to troubleshoot what was faulty.

Cheers,
Alkay.

I hope this helps. Please excuse the very rough edits, I didn't spend time making it pretty but hopefully it shows how the Pitbull wiring diagram connects to the 8-lug 3-way blade switch that you have.
Attachment 34639

And my apologies to the Pitbull copyright holders for thus modifying their image. It's purely to help a forum member wire up parts they bought from Pitbull.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jugglindan

I hope this helps. Please excuse the very rough edits, I didn't spend time making it pretty but hopefully it shows how the Pitbull wiring diagram connects to the 8-lug 3-way blade switch that you have.
Attachment 34639

And my apologies to the Pitbull copyright holders for thus modifying their image. It's purely to help a forum member wire up parts they bought from Pitbull.

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Thanks jugglindan,

Thats perfect I think I can follow that. Thank you very much for putting in the time creating it.

I will let you know how I get on with it.

Cheers,
Alkay.

Good luck!

Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

Great work @jugglindan - love to see a forum member helping another out!

Thanks @Brendan. The wiring is my only strong-point in this whole process, so it's nice to try to repay all the help I get here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jugglindan

Good luck!

Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

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Hi jugglindan,

Thanks heaps for the diagram. I finished soldering and it does work :)

Only thing is the middle switch position is basically muted. I would have thought middle position would enable both the neck and bridge pickups at the same time? Please correct me if I have that wrong?

Also the bridge pickup is enabled when the switch is furthest from the bridge pickup
and the neck pickup is enabled when the switch is furthest from the neck pickup.

I took the orientation of the diagram as a birds eye view looking at it from outside the body looking down at the plastic knob. That was the only way that seemed to make sense with my pic above of the switch I purchased to make the orientation the same.

I hope that makes sense but I really appreciate your help so thank you very much.

Cheers,
Alkay.

Quote:

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Only thing is the middle switch position is basically muted. I would have thought middle position would enable both the neck and bridge pickups at the same time? Please correct me if I have that wrong?

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You are correct. Middle position engages both pickups.
We may need some photos to help you troubleshoot that part.

Quote:

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Also the bridge pickup is enabled when the switch is furthest from the bridge pickup
and the neck pickup is enabled when the switch is furthest from the neck pickup.

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Easy fix! just swap the pickup leads from where they are presently connected. You could also just turn the switch around, but there may not be enough length on the wires to do that.

I saw jugglindan's diagram, and his scheme is different than I would do it. I'm not saying it's wrong. There are usually several ways of wiring a guitar circuit that will yield the same result.

If you can post clear pics of what you have wired, someone should be able to point out where things have gone awry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by McCreed

You are correct. Middle position engages both pickups.
We may need some photos to help you troubleshoot that part.



Easy fix! just swap the pickup leads from where they are presently connected. You could also just turn the switch around, but there may not be enough length on the wires to do that.

I saw jugglindan's diagram, and his scheme is different than I would do it. I'm not saying it's wrong. There are usually several ways of wiring a guitar circuit that will yield the same result.

If you can post clear pics of what you have wired, someone should be able to point out where things have gone awry.

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Thanks McCreed,

I appreciate the time but he just picked up the guitar and wasn't interested in me fixing up the pickups. I wish I had a photo of it I could upload so that it might help others too.

Yes I understand about turning the switch around, I just wish I knew what I did wrong with the wiring to stop the middle switch engaging both the neck and bridge pickups.

Thank you everyone that contributed to fixing this anyway. I'm mostly used to wiring LP style guitars so this one was a new one for me.

Cheers,
Alkay

McCreed is correct and I am not. My apologies but I have led you astray by not checking the logic of the DiMarzio diagram. I just assumed that since it was indexed under "2 humbucker, 3-way switch, 1 volume, 1 tone, neck, neck/bridge, bridge" that it would be the correct diagram. I think the DiMarzio diagram is incorrect, and that you wired it up perfectly. Here is my analysis diagram. Green dots indicate the lugs that are connected on that side of the switch for each position, red dots indicate the lugs that are connected on the other bank. The top row of diagrams shows the result for each blade position using the DiMarzio wiring. The bottom row corrects the mistakes.
Attachment 34662

However, you can see that all that is required is one extra link on each side for the middle switch position to select both pickups. So if your friend ever returns the guitar it will be easy to fix.

Plus you should be pleased that you followed the diagram perfectly, it's the DiMarzio switch wiring that is wrong. My apologies once again for that.

I forgot to mention that I just found this excellent page that demystifies the 3 and 5-way blade switches. It should be essential reading for everyone before they start wiring their guitar.

It should also be essential reading for me before I answer any pickup wiring questions! Sorry once again :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jugglindan

McCreed is correct and I am not. My apologies but I have led you astray by not checking the logic of the DiMarzio diagram. I just assumed that since it was indexed under "2 humbucker, 3-way switch, 1 volume, 1 tone, neck, neck/bridge, bridge" that it would be the correct diagram. I think the DiMarzio diagram is incorrect, and that you wired it up perfectly. Here is my analysis diagram. Green dots indicate the lugs that are connected on that side of the switch for each position, red dots indicate the lugs that are connected on the other bank. The top row of diagrams shows the result for each blade position using the DiMarzio wiring. The bottom row corrects the mistakes.
Attachment 34662

However, you can see that all that is required is one extra link on each side for the middle switch position to select both pickups. So if your friend ever returns the guitar it will be easy to fix.

Plus you should be pleased that you followed the diagram perfectly, it's the DiMarzio switch wiring that is wrong. My apologies once again for that.

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No need to apologise mate your help is greatly appreciated. It is a bit difficult to understand your new diagram without the guitar here now but I think what you are saying is I just need to add a wire on each side to get both pickups working in the middle position.

I will see if I can get him to drop the guitar back over in the next couple of days and try to fix it. I will take a picture of the wiring if he does bring it back because I want to do it correctly.

It will be helpful for me to understand this for the future because I'll probably build a seven string at some stage :)

Cheers,
Alkay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jugglindan

I forgot to mention that I just found this excellent page that demystifies the 3 and 5-way blade switches. It should be essential reading for everyone before they start wiring their guitar.

It should also be essential reading for me before I answer any pickup wiring questions! Sorry once again :(

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Great diagram in the link you sent thank you. I will study that more. Hope I can get the guitar back soon.

So is The Basement still open up on the hill in Belco?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alkay

Great diagram in the link you sent thank you. I will study that more. Hope I can get the guitar back soon.

So is The Basement still open up on the hill in Belco?

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Yes, that Fralin link has the best explanation of how the switches work. Understand that and you can create any effect you want. I will be using that page's wiring for everything in the future.

Re The Basement: sorry, I don't know. I'm on the southside and only get to Belco maybe once a year when visiting Jaycar. Pretty much all bars, clubs, and music venues are closed right now though :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alkay

No need to apologise mate your help is greatly appreciated. It is a bit difficult to understand your new diagram without the guitar here now but I think what you are saying is I just need to add a wire on each side to get both pickups working in the middle position.

I will see if I can get him to drop the guitar back over in the next couple of days and try to fix it. I will take a picture of the wiring if he does bring it back because I want to do it correctly.

It will be helpful for me to understand this for the future because I'll probably build a seven string at some stage :)

Cheers,
Alkay

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Sorry, I missed this in my last reply.

Yes, you are correct. You just need one extra link wire on each side, to connect the red and green coloured terminals in the top-middle diagram to the output wire that heads off to the pots.

If you have some alligator clip test leads (or can hack something up with paperclips and wire) you can temporarily bridge the connections without soldering to make sure you have the right terminals identified. The DiMarzio diagram has the lug ordering reversed from the Fralin one, so I think one is looking from the top of the switch and one from the bottom. I tried to account for this, but testing with temporary connections is the safest approach.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jugglindan

Sorry, I missed this in my last reply.

Yes, you are correct. You just need one extra link wire on each side, to connect the red and green coloured terminals in the top-middle diagram to the output wire that heads off to the pots.

If you have some alligator clip test leads (or can hack something up with paperclips and wire) you can temporarily bridge the connections without soldering to make sure you have the right terminals identified. The DiMarzio diagram has the lug ordering reversed from the Fralin one, so I think one is looking from the top of the switch and one from the bottom. I tried to account for this, but testing with temporary connections is the safest approach.

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Ok great thank you. I'll see if I can get it back over the weekend and give it a try.

Cheers,
Alkay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jugglindan

Sorry, I missed this in my last reply.

Yes, you are correct. You just need one extra link wire on each side, to connect the red and green coloured terminals in the top-middle diagram to the output wire that heads off to the pots.

If you have some alligator clip test leads (or can hack something up with paperclips and wire) you can temporarily bridge the connections without soldering to make sure you have the right terminals identified. The DiMarzio diagram has the lug ordering reversed from the Fralin one, so I think one is looking from the top of the switch and one from the bottom. I tried to account for this, but testing with temporary connections is the safest approach.

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Ok I have the guitar back. Just to confirm it's the top middle of the diagram you did for me and NOT the bottom middle.

Here is a pic I have tried to label it the best I can I hope you can see?

Attachment 34670

Cheers,
Alkay

So noted in the blue line below is where I should make a connection or have I stuffed that up hahaha?

Attachment 34671

Actually from reading I think this is the one I'm meant to be doing?

Attachment 34672

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alkay

So noted in the blue line below is where I should make a connection or have I stuffed that up hahaha?

Attachment 34671

Actually from reading I think this is the one I'm meant to be doing?

Attachment 34672

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Awesome just tried it with some trusty twist ties and it works perfectly. So I'll solder it now :)

Your blue line doesn't look right to me. The second diagram is the one to aim for. Here's why:
Attachment 34673
This is the diagram just for the middle switch position, which should select both pickups. The red spots show which terminals on the neck pickup side are connected to each other in that switch position. The neck pickup wire connects to the other red terminal, but that is not connected to the output. It's the same on the bridge pickup side (green spots).

The bottom diagram shows the two additional links required to connect the each pickup to the output wire in this position. If you go back to the full diagram you can connect the green dots to see which switch position will include the bridge, and connect the red dots to see when the neck is connected. The purple circles just highlight the critical spots.

As far as I can tell from your photo, the two green lines I have drawn correspond to where you need extra links. But please test first without soldering if you can.
Attachment 34674

Mate.......awesome I did it. It worked and I am very happy with the result :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jugglindan

Your blue line doesn't look right to me. The second diagram is the one to aim for. Here's why:
Attachment 34673
This is the diagram just for the middle switch position, which should select both pickups. The red spots show which terminals on the neck pickup side are connected to each other in that switch position. The neck pickup wire connects to the other red terminal, but that is not connected to the output. It's the same on the bridge pickup side (green spots).

The bottom diagram shows the two additional links required to connect the each pickup to the output wire in this position. If you go back to the full diagram you can connect the green dots to see which switch position will include the bridge, and connect the red dots to see when the neck is connected. The purple circles just highlight the critical spots.

As far as I can tell from your photo, the two green lines I have drawn correspond to where you need extra links. But please test first without soldering if you can.
Attachment 34674

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Very happy with that thank you so much. I wish I could help othhers on this forum but I'm still learning, especially about the electronics.

Only issue is I didn't have enough wiring from the neck pup so had to leave the orientation of the switch the same without trying to extend the PUP wires but he is happy now and I'm really happy that I learned. I encouraged him to get into guitar building too.

It's such a great community here and I thank everyone always for their input so thank you. I'm so happy :)

Cheers,

Alkay.

Awesome! I am glad you got it working. Congratulations on seeing it though, and being patient with me while I led you down a false path. Thanks for that :)

The pickup switch being reversed doesn't matter really as long as it gets the job done.

I'd check one of your solder joints. If you haven't done it already, the the connection I've circled in blue doesn't appear to be soldered. it may be touching the switch tab at the moment and making contact, but it needs to be soldered for reliability.

Attachment 34678

I know I'm late to the party here, but for future reference, for any 2 pickup guitar with 1 volume 1 tone and 3-way lever switch, I refer to the good 'ol tele wiring scheme. HB's or SC's principle is the same

Plain & simple:

Attachment 34679

If the unnecessary (but not harmful) extra link from each pickup wire (from A0 to A3, and B0 to B1) in the horribly flawed DiMarzio diagram is removed, that tele wiring is exactly where we ended up. I still feel bad for not checking that diagram in the first place, but at least the guitar is working now.

This Dimarzio diagram that was linked to is perfectly correct. https://d2emr0qhzqfj88.cloudfront.ne...t_3w_all_0.pdf

These are the 3 ways I've found (so far) to wire that type of switch, with that Dimarzio diagram being one of them:

Attachment 34682

Attachment 34683

Attachment 34684

The third one is really just an extension of the second one, as the extra links are superfluous, but it still works.

Simon, you are correct. Hampered by not having a switch handy that I could test with a multimeter, I have misinterpreted a (misleading?) detail on the Fralin diagram. They have the relative positions of the terminals mirrored - "A" in your diagram is shown as the terminal closest to the end on each side. I interpreted this as the switch being viewed from above rather than below but it is actually a red herring with no meaning at all. Terminal identification is purely an order/left-to-right affair. If I ignore the different terminal offsets then all diagrams you linked make sense. Here's a composite image showing the Fralin image on the bottom. Terminal numbering is identical, but the offset relative to the two narrow ends of the switch are mirrored compared to every other diagram I have seen. Confusing, but not wrong.
Attachment 34688

There are differences between switch manufacturers, for example between an Oaks Grigsby and Gotoh 3 or 5 way lever switch.

Whilst the switching configuration is the same, the physical appearance (like the offset of the terminals) is not. It can be confusing at first glance. I still keep printed reference materials in my workshop just for this reason. The ol' cranial hard drive ain't what it used to be :D.

Yeah, I get that now, thanks.


My confusion also means my "wiring fix" just added redundant links. The reason it appeared to help is that jostling things around made the intermittent connections work for a bit.

Alkay, you definitely need more solder on those joints.


Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

Once you get to three pickups, then there really is only one way to wire a 3-way or 5-way switch (though there is always the option on most switches to cross-link the terminals on each side of the switch for increased contact reliability).

Been awhile since I checked this.

Thank you everyone. Yes Simons diagram worked too. I got it going and he is happy.
I would like to build a 7 string in the future so this helps me allot.
Cheers,
Alkay.