40's style Gibson 400 Black rear headstock/neck pinstripe, with Dingotone

[Tweaky]

This has got me stumped.
I bought the ES3 kit, and my intention/ want, is to be able to a achieve a headstock, that is Black at the rear, and tapering down the rear volute, into a pinstrip, that runs down the rear of the neck like a classic Gibson premier super 400.


I'll probably put Gold Klusons on it to match.

I was looking at using Dingtone for the rest of the guitars body/neck.....is this possible?

If so, how do I go about doing this, or am I going to have to look at a paint/lacquer finish to achieve this?

[Gavin1393]

Hi Tweaky

The effect you are looking for is achieved by using a veneer on the back of the head stock.

You can get these off e-bay for a few dollars.

The pinstripe requires a channel to be cut down the middle of the neck and the insertion of a wood binding.

[Tweaky]

WOW!
That is totally NOT what I was expecting to hear.

What sort of veneer are we talking about?
Ebony, Dark Rosewood...it doesn't look like either to be honest.

I can imagine original neck construction having book-matched Tiger maple , using Ebony stripe down the middle as a spline.
Then Gibson, not wanting to show the joint at the headstock, painting the rear Black.

I got given a similar [Super 400 type] guitar when first learning.

My widowed mum was going out with a former pro Jazz guitarist.....he & I hit it off.....I later learned he had this under his bed, in the case, under disrepair [he had clobbered somebody with it and had cracked the side ].... I paid to get it fixed.....he said it cost me more than he paid for it back in 1958, so I might as well keep it.....which I did, until it got stolen.

Tommy Emmanual gave me the history of Levin guitars in Aus, he said they were imported by Nicklesons Music, and that Levin was actually a Swedish based subsidiary of Martin Guitars, that made Archtops for the AMERICAN MARKET.

You can see a well know photo of Django Reinhardt playing the exact same guitar on his only US Tour.


Long story, but sort of explains my love for Achtops....you can get any sound you want out of them by just changing where you pick/strum.

[Gavin1393]

It is possible that Gibson may have painted the Headstock but to get a quality finish you will want to apply a thin veneer. Ebony would be more expensive than Rosewood, but nothing stops you dyeing the rosewood black before attaching it to the headstock. The reason for the 'skunk' stripe on Fender guitars was to seal the channel that they cut to insert the truss rod.

The Gibson Super 400 was first sold in 1934 and named for its $400 price.

The Super 400 was the largest guitar that the Gibson produced. Until 1939, it had a hand-engraved tailpiece and a hand-engraved finger rest support. During the very early production stock the truss rod cover had engraved "L5 Super"; on later guitars this was changed to "Super 400".

In 1939 the guitar was changed. The upper bout was enlarged, and the hand-engraved tailpiece was replaced with the one fitted to the current Super 400s. The f-holes were enlarged, and a cutaway option was available. This was called the Super 400P (for Premiere), later changed to C for Cutaway.

During the 1950s, Gibson released the Super 400 CES. This had a slightly thicker top to reduce feedback, two P-90 pickups, and individual tone and volume controls, along with a three-way toggle switch. Later the P-90 pickups were replaced with Alnico V pickups, then in 1957, humbucking pickups.

[Tweaky]

I'm not doubting you...it's I'm just trying to envision the black Gibson headstocks I've run across before.....they weren't exactly uniform in construction/presentation come to think about it.

Actually, If you watch "It Might Get LOUD"......You will see J/Page play a Black headstocked Gibson when playing 'In my time of Dying'.....WTF the model is???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m9tDkic_GM
Nothing I can identify 100%

[Gavin1393]

Actually, If you watch "It Might Get LOUD"......You will see J/Page play a Black headstocked Gibson when playing 'In my time of Dying'.....WTF the model is???
Nothing I can identify 100%

I think it's his Gibson Custom Shop ES-350...

[Brendan]

I think Gav's right - it looks to me like it's a three piece neck - may have originally been a single piece of maple, but a piece of something else (I'm guessing rosewood from Gav's photo), but given it was made in an era when there would be more than enough of everything to do whatever you wanted in the world (i.e., pre CITES), it could easily have been ebony.

In terms of doing it - I think your options are...
1. Paint - finish the sanding, etc of the neck then mask everything that doesn't need to be black and spray - would be fairly straightforward, but may not be authentic / exact - still - would look pretty close;
2. Ebony headstock veneer - from memory ~$20 from Carbatec. You'll need to thin out the back of the headstock enough that when you add a couple of mm of veneer (headstock veneers are thicker than standard veneer at ~3mm) you can still get the tuners working properly. You could then paint the skunk stripe down the back to get the overall effect... Overall wouldn't be easy or quick - depending on skill level it may be safer to go with #1 as there is real risk in going down this path of damaging (i.e., junking) the neck unless you know what you're doing.
3. Rebuild the neck - by the time you've taken the fingerboard off, truss rod out (and put a brand new one in - you're going this far, why skimp on a truss rod), cut the neck in two, inserted a veneer for the stripe, put a new slotted fingerboard on (you'll have damaged the original), etc, etc, etc, it would be safer to build a new neck with the stripe in it - certainly not for the faint hearted and not an easy job...

[dingobass]

They certainly are three piece necks..

You won't be able to do it with DT, so my thoughts are you would be best to mask it up and paint it.

As for building a whole new neck, it is doable with the right tools and know how.........

[Tweaky]

Yeah.....It seem more a scratch build neck to get the result.
Bookmatched Tiger maple neck [not overly so, as Tiger Maple isn't the best for this use....the bigger the Flame, the more unstable it is apparently...don't know if roasting it [ as some are doing] actually helps....suspect it would dry it out too much, and cause fragility.

A Ebony trussrod spline, running down the middle [if you have seen these old Achtops], they go Mahogany sides for the neck, maple strip/Ebony spline/Maple strip, Mahogany , was I suspect a method used prior to the development of the truss rod, and just carried on as a neck construction method.
{My Levin Deluxe 400 carved Archtop had no trussrod ], ....well it had some sort of metal thing barely visible running out from under the neck, at the body joint, you had to stick your finger in there to actually know it was there....what it actually did....I have no idea, even after all these years.
You see it in Classic Strombergs and De Angelico builds, right up until the 60's built like this.

Anyway.
I've received the last of all my kit's yesterday......on the whole I'm impressed with the body construction.....a few minor issues....but I know how to sort all but one [I'll photo and ask advice on the problem...slight Ply splitting at neck joint, more a finish problem].......3 different kits will keep me going, and if I space the builds out, I will not be in a hurry to get any one finished soon, which should get better results long term, finish wise, if using Dingtone

Totally OT:
I picked up a new release movie at JB today that I have been waiting to be released, it's called Rudderless...recommended.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puOUO2T1H6o

[dingobass]

First time I have heard of Flamed Maple being unstable...
I would say the opposite as the flaming is caused by the tree growing big and the weight of the crown actually compresses the trunk.
This and the tree slowly rotating as it follows the sun creates flames and quilt in the timber.
Add these things and then quarter cut the log and you end up with timber that is very stable as well as being very pleasing to look at.
Then when building the neck, if you go for a laminated construction it should not move too much at all.