Tuning Machines.

[DrNomis_44]

Just thought I'd start a thread about Tuning Machines, I think the quality of these things are very important to the tune-ability of your guitar.


I've been having a real rough time with trying to buy good quality tuning machines for my guitars, tried some well known brands of Tuning Machines and have been a bit disappointed in the quality, here's my experiences with the brands I've tried (note:I was using an accurate Dean Markley Tuner Pedal with a good fresh 9V battery to tune the guitars) .


Fender OEM:


These came stock on my Fender Mexican Standard Stratocaster, basically I had a real hard time trying to tune the guitar and keep it in tune from the day I first bough it, I took the strings off the guitar and examined the tuners, every one of them had backlash (note, this was a brand new guitar), so, I thought a set of replacements would fix the problem, they didn't, turned out the replacements had backlash too.

Fender Locking Tuners:

Although they initially didn't exhibit much backlash, it was only when I'd installed them on my Mexican Strat that I found that a few of them had loose buttons making accurate tuning difficult.

Gotohs:


Pretty much every set of new Gotoh Tuners I've ever bought had enough individual tuners with backlash that rendered the whole set of 6 useless.


Schaller Locking Tuners:

Initially they seemed okay, but soon after I installed them on my PRS SE Custom 24 I noticed that it was difficult to accurately tune each string to pitch, turned out that some of the tuners had loose-fitting buttons which caused backlash.


Grover Rotomatic Lockers:


One of my pet peeves with these tuners is that the high E-String had a tendency to break whenever I tried tuning the guitar up to pitch, I had these installed on my PRS SE Custom 24 which had 42-09 gauge strings on it, I ended up threading the high E-String twice through the hole in order to prevent it from breaking, once I had the guitar tuned to pitch I noticed that it was hard to tune accurately, to cut a long story short it turned out that there were some loose fitting buttons.


So, is it just me or is the quality control of these companies a bit lacking?

[bargeloobs]

Just thought I'd start a thread about Tuning Machines, I think the quality of these things are very important to the tune-ability of your guitar.


I've been having a real rough time with trying to buy good quality tuning machines for my guitars, tried some well known brands of Tuning Machines and have been a bit disappointed in the quality, here's my experiences with the brands I've tried (note:I was using an accurate Dean Markley Tuner Pedal with a good fresh 9V battery to tune the guitars) .


Fender OEM:


These came stock on my Fender Mexican Standard Stratocaster, basically I had a real hard time trying to tune the guitar and keep it in tune from the day I first bough it, I took the strings off the guitar and examined the tuners, every one of them had backlash (note, this was a brand new guitar), so, I thought a set of replacements would fix the problem, they didn't, turned out the replacements had backlash too.

Fender Locking Tuners:

Although they initially didn't exhibit much backlash, it was only when I'd installed them on my Mexican Strat that I found that a few of them had loose buttons making accurate tuning difficult.

Gotohs:


Pretty much every set of new Gotoh Tuners I've ever bought had enough individual tuners with backlash that rendered the whole set of 6 useless.


Schaller Locking Tuners:

Initially they seemed okay, but soon after I installed them on my PRS SE Custom 24 I noticed that it was difficult to accurately tune each string to pitch, turned out that some of the tuners had loose-fitting buttons which caused backlash.


Grover Rotomatic Lockers:


One of my pet peeves with these tuners is that the high E-String had a tendency to break whenever I tried tuning the guitar up to pitch, I had these installed on my PRS SE Custom 24 which had 42-09 gauge strings on it, I ended up threading the high E-String twice through the hole in order to prevent it from breaking, once I had the guitar tuned to pitch I noticed that it was hard to tune accurately, to cut a long story short it turned out that there were some loose fitting buttons.


So, is it just me or is the quality control of these companies a bit lacking?

Wow.....just wow:P

[wokkaboy]

interesting post there Dr Nomis, so is there a tuner you've tried that does keep in tune and have little backlash ?

[pablopepper]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what the hell is backlash?

[bargeloobs]

Here's a copy/pasta from the Dean Markley site that is worth a read.
STAYING IN TUNE

The first thing that most people assume when their guitar won't stay in tune is that the tuners are slipping, or somehow not doing their job. A logical enough assumption, but 99.9% of the time it is wrong. Given that all the intonation factors we have discussed are accounted for, making the instrument capable of getting in tune in the first place, the most common reason guitars go out of tune is our old friend...strings. "But I put new strings on today," you cry. Yes but did you stretch them? "Of course," you protest. Let's see that guitar. Well look at this. One yank on the low E and the pitch drops a step and a half. If your average guitar repairman had a nickel for every time that scenario took place, he would be working from a mansion in Malibu, not the back of the local axe shack.

When you put on new strings the windings around the tuners must be tightened by pulling the string until it no longer goes flat when pulled. This requires repeated moderate pulling, retuning, pulling, retuning and so on until done. Pull the string away from the fingerboard, not across it to avoid breaking the nut. If you don't do this, then every time you play a song or bend a string you will be tightening those windings, causing the string to go flat. By the time they settle in, it will be long past time to change your strings, and the whole process will start over.

If you find when stretching the string that it keeps going flat and eventually pulls out of the tuner, you may be stringing the guitar improperly. Pull the string through the tuner (or cut off the end and insert it, as with Kluson-style Fender tuners), leaving just enough slack for two to four windings - too many windings makes stretching difficult.

If the tuner is the type where the string pulls through, take each unwound string and bring it back and under itself in such a way that the windings will go over the end, thus locking it (POSSIBLE ILLUSTRATION). If it is the Kluson-style, wind the string part way down, then back up then all the way down to achieve a similar effect. Proper stringing and stretching of the strings will prevent going out of tune 90% of the time. As the folks at Nike say, "Just do it."

[bargeloobs]

Moar...

Why won’t your guitar stay in tune?


1. The “nut”

The guitar nut sits at the very top of the fretboard. It’s really important to get the nut seating the strings correctly as they pass over it. If it’s cut too narrow it pinches the string as you tune and you get that sense of nothing happening until you hear a ‘ping’ Then all of a sudden the pitch of the string jumps upward. Also if it’s not cut flat the string essentially passes over a knife edge and is much more liable to prematurely break. This can all be cured with a gentle filing down but unless you really know what you’re doing take it to a professional repairer! One thing you could try first is lubricating the nut by shaving some graphite from a pencil into each string slot to allow each string to pass over it more freely.

2. The tuning pegs

Check if there is play in your tuning pegs. You may be able to solve this by tightening the tiny screw in the peg itself, if that doesn’t help then again take it to a pro repairer.

3. Intonation

Another key tuning area is intonation, especially if you play chords that combine fretted and open notes higher up the neck. If a guitar isn’t intonated properly open strings don’t sound quite in tune with their octave notes up on the twelfth fret, and it’s those slightly out of tune notes that really grate. Much of this can be solved by tweaking the metal truss rod down the centre of the guitar neck but again if you don’t know what you’re doing take it to a professional luthier and get it set up properly. Just think of it like a routine car service that just needs to be done every so often. It may cost a few bucks but a really ‘in tune’ guitar is worth the expense.

4. The strings

And sometimes a guitar not staying in tune is purely down to old strings so do change them regularly. When you do, take a minute or two to stretch them in as they’ll stay at pitch much more quickly. If you’re not familiar with how to do this there are plenty of resources on YouTube to show you how and it’ll make a dramatic difference. Also when you change strings make sure you leave enough space for a number of windings around each string tree. Generally unwound top strings need more winds than the wound lower ones.

5. The capo

Another recurring tuning issue comes along with using a capo, especially on guitars with jumbo frets. Most guitarists realise that a badly placed capo will pull strings out of tune, but actually putting a capo on a guitar with bigger frets will cause the strings to pull down further onto the neck and so pull them sharp. Shubb type capos have adjustable tension which will help but alternatively try placing the capo directly on top of the fret rather than traditionally behind it and this should help.

6. The strap

One possible cause of tuning issues is that the strap is tied to the headstock. This will pull the strings sharp. If this is the case get a strap button screwed onto the heel of the guitar. They dont cost much at all if you fit it yourself or a shop will charge to fit it for you.

7. The climate

Humidity and temperature can have a huge effect on tuning too. In January I was in Edmonton, Alberta and the temperature changes due to taking instruments from the car into the outdoors and then into a warm building, coupled with the dry climate there caused enormous tuning problems. Similarly a church building warms up hugely when people come and start to sing. So again so the rule is to tune often and often.

8. You!

Sometimes bad tuning is caused simply by pressing a string too hard and causing it to go sharp, especially if you are playing electric or with light guage strings. I find Gibson electrics can be prone to this particularly at the G string. Alongside just pressing more gently you could try going up a string gauge or even replacing an unwound G with a wound one.

[bargeloobs]

• High or low frets: Too much and too little fret height can mess with your ability to play in tune. Pressing down on a fret that’s too high produces a sharp note unless you’re aware of the height of the frets and develop a light touch, like guitarists who perform on instruments with scalloped fretboards. Low frets, on the other hand, tend to encourage sloppy fretting technique in beginners. It is easy to slide over or around the fret instead of pinning the string right up against it.

• Pickup proximity: Here’s a mind-blowing problem. Pickups are, of course, magnetic. And if they’re ultra-hot and too close to the strings, they will exert a small amount of downward magnetic pull. That can make it tough to tune a guitar accurately and interfere with intonation. On the other hand, lowering the pickups will darken a guitar’s tone. Spend some time to find the right balance or pickup height and tone.

[Nickosaurus]

I've had schaller lockers in my SG for YEARS and they've never failed. I can leave it for months and it'll always stay in tune regardless. Amazing tuners imo

[bargeloobs]

I've had schaller lockers in my SG for YEARS and they've never failed. I can leave it for months and it'll always stay in tune regardless. Amazing tuners imo

I just picked up the Bladecatcher this morning after literally sitting for 3 weeks, still beautifully in tune. Those Grover locking tuners are rock solid.

[vh2580]

Have never had a problem with any tuners other than bumping em into stuff after too many beers.