Solid finish with binding

[crundes]

Hey everyone,
Nice to be back after finishing my first kit a while back! I have a few newbie questions about the finish I want to achieve on the Tele I got for Christmas.

Firstly I want to finish it using a solid colour, thinking cream or black. From what I understand, the best way to do this is to sand the body to a fine grit and apply either a grain filler or primer to create a smoother, even finish when colour coats are applied. The next step would then be to apply very finely sprayed coats of acrylic paint and wet sand to 1500 grit or higher. Does anyone have any suggestions as to anything I should change in this process?

Secondly I was after some suggestions for good spray cans. I saw Gav T used mtn94 products on one of his Tele kits which looked amazing. I've also heard behlen are very good. Any tips for technique when using these products? I believe it is much more difficult than it looks.

Finally, I've decided to challenge myself and put a binding on this guitar using my new siminoff attachment for dremel. Was wondering what tape everyone uses when spraying over binding. Can I just use masking tape? Or is there a low tack tape that is more suited to the task?

Cheers
Tim

[Scott J.]

Hey Tim,

Good questions ... but I think you'll find that get a whole range of answers as we've each got our own preferences in these areas

For grain filler:
I've always found Timbermate a bloody great product ... water-based, versatile, no nasty ingredients, and re-usable (yes, re-usable) ... and its Australian!

... YouBoob has a number of clips displaying its qualities and uses ... https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=timbermate

For Finishes:
If going for a solid-colour finish, I've always gone for Nitro-cellulose over other types (acrylic, polyester, etc) ... I don't think any of them provide any much greater benefit than the others (except maybe ease of application), but for me its probably just the "tradition" of N-C finishes on guitars that I prefer ... with the plusses being that it is easy to apply and does give a really nice finish.

I get my Nitro from Sydney Guitar Setups ... http://sydneyguitarsetups.com/... Anthony carries a small range of basic colours but can mix most colours on order (you wont them in his on-line catalogue) ... they're not cheap (about $30 a can) but they're good quality rattle cans with nice spray and hold enough for about 2 Tele sized bodies

[crundes]

Thanks for the advice Scott. I'll check out that nitro you're talking about. I'm in Melbourne so may be a bit pricey for me with postage on top of that, but I do like going for products that people recommend and have had good results with.

Cheers :-)

[Scott J.]

Being in a major centre like Melbourne you should have no trouble finding a stockist of nitro.

A lot the builders here in the forum have a liking for poly-(urethane) especially the wipe-on variety and they're getting some great results too ... haven't used it myself so I really can't comment but suspect that its due to it being cheaper, easier to work with and less "unfriendly" to the human system ... (guys, anyone want to provide advice/opinion on poly?)

There are just a couple of things to be aware of for using nitro ...
- it can be less forgiving than other finishes (but a bit of care and attention to deal generally overcomes this factor)
- make sure your area's well-ventilated (inhaling nitro can be nasty to your body)
- Always go for lots of thin coats (almost "dusting" coats) rather than just a couple of thick coats - this is the area in which its less forgiving than other finishes (where you can get away with thicker coats) ... but the up side is that you don't need to wait days for nitro to cure between coats as it dries pretty quickly (depending in conditions you can get in two coats in a day) ... and the difference between thin-coat/thick-coat approach will show in the final finish
- after you've got enough coverage in your coatings, give it up to a week (or more - all depending on ambient temperature) to fully cure and harden before polishing
- I "wet" polish the cured nitro by hand (I don't have a polishing/buffing wheel) with a 2000+ and 3000/4000 grit wet&dry and using Windex for the "wetting agent" (yes, Windex! - it seems to make quite a difference over using just water) ... a bit of "elbow grease" in the polishing and its not hard to get the same level of finish as on the top level, big-name guitars.

(DB - please forgive me for all this conversation on the "naughty" n-c stuff! )

[bargeloobs]

Just be aware when using nitro that it does have a tendency to not play nice with other products. If you do decide to use Behlen and go with black as your solid colour, do yourself a favour, save yourself some heartache and buy the Behlen Black lacquer toner. At least this way you know you won't have any reactions when spraying the clear. Also don't even bother spraying nitro clear over vinyl decals, it will eat them, then you will cry.
Even clearing over waterslides, much care should be taken and start off with very fine mist coats until you've built up a decent layer.
If you go too thick it will eat them, peel them up and all manner of nasty things.
Like Scott mentioned, decent ventilation is paramount with this stuff and keep the layers thin. Because it dries super fast, when applying thin coats you'll probably notice a bit of dimpling in the finish but you'll get rid of all that once you wet sand.

[crundes]

Thanks for the tips Scott and barge. You both covered a number of issues I hadn't thought of, and by the looks of your guitars you know what you're talking about!
Just wondering, do you generally wet sand every couple of coats or just the final coat? I'm sure I'll have more questions as I progress so will probably start a build diary soon.

Cheers
Tim

[Scott J.]

Now you're in the realm of "skinning cats" ... how you do it is really down to what works best for you ... if you ask 10 builders that question you'll probably get 10 different answers!

... my approach, with nitro (and a solid colour), if I'm happy that I 've been getting each coat on nice and even, then I'll probably just wait until after last coat to sand (and if the coats haven't been going on even I'll give myself a good kicking and be light sanding in between coats to remedy to screw-up) ... but doing a sunburst will require light sanding in between changes of colour (and helps control the colour transition of the 'burst too)

[crundes]

Ha ha, cheers Scott, it does seem a bit that way. Although not knowing anything about wet sanding or skinning cats, any advice is helpful! :-)

Your way sounds simple enough so i'll have a play around with that when the time comes!

[Scott J.]

BTW - should have mentioned that the procedure I was talking about was just referring to the top (colour) coat ... before that final finish layer, all the grain fillers, primers/undercoats each get dry-sanded dead-smooth.