Help! Advice needed on glueing in the neck

[baldrick]

Hi Folks

I hope someone can help me as it's looking like I will have to cut a bit off my neck and I really don't want to do that without being fully informed.

I need to make the nut to 12th fret distance the same as the 12th fret to saddle distance and it looks like I can't do that with the saddle holes in their pre-drilled position. Here's the measurements (it's an ES1GT by the way):

Nut (fretboard-side edge) to middle of 12th fret: 313.5mm

Distances from 12th fret to saddle (middle of each) with the neck pushed in as far as it will go and the saddle adjusters screwed forward towards the bridge pickup as far as they will go (ie the string would be as as "short" as possible):

Low E: 321.5
A: 321
D: 320
G: 319
B: 318.5
HighE: 318

All in mm.

Here are the same measurements with the saddle adjusters wound back as far as they will go towards the tailpiece:

Low E: 327
A: 326
D: 325
G: 324
B: 324
HighE: 323.5

It seems to me that the neck needs to be shortened so that it will fit deeper into the neck pocket to get the 313.5mm between 12th fret and saddle. Am I missing something?

Also, I've got the saddle on with the adjusting screws towards the tailpiece. This won't get rid of the above problem but have I got it the right way around?


Thanks for any help.

One more thing: Stewmac's fret calculator give the following information for a 628mm scale length with tune-o-matic bridge: "629.539mm from nut to centre of treble-side [bridge-mounting] post. Mount bass-side post 1.5 - 3mm further from the nut". Currently I can't get this distance lower than 633mm, which also suggests that the neck needs trimming.

Looking forward to heaps of well-informed, experienced help as I'm itching to get this little beauty finished.

Cheers
Geoff ("Baldrick")

[Brendan]

Dude - don't cut!!! I've got no idea on how to help, but I'm sure that there will be some people here who will be able to walk you through getting the setup right.

Key things I've learnt - be exact on what you are measuring - from high point of the nut to the high point of 12th fret (that's where the string "stops" when you fret it on the 12th). Then from there to the bridge.

Maybe some marked up photos may help everyone be clear where you're measuring from and to?

[dingobass]

Hi Baldrick.

What you are looking at is compensation.
Even though it sounds a little excessive it is within tolerance.

I am sure that the Gavmeister will confirm or deny

I would spin the bridge piece around, it is easier to adjust the intonation if the screws a facing the pup.

[Gavin1393]

Ok, I'm here...What seems to be the problem? Ok.....ok.....yes, agree with DB it is Intonation!
Check this article on the FAQ section of the forum.
http://pitbullguitars.com/?page_id=4...iewtopic&t=253

[baldrick]

Please bear in mind that this is written before I've fully digested the replies posted ( and thanks for them). I'm still a bit confused: if I'm aiming for "bridge to 12th fret = 12th fret to nut" as the start point (before adjusting for intonation) it still seems way off to me as the closest I can get is 5mm from that with all the adjustments already taken up. Am I still missing something here? Probably not sheep stations but I'd rather get it right at this PointOfNoReturn stage than learn something vital after the glue has dried.

I don't mean to seem like I'm ignoring the posted advice and I'm very grateful for it but something still does quite add up. Feel free to post explaining exactly how much of an idiot I'm being - I'll happily cop that in return for the knowledge gained.


Cheers


Geoff

PS here's a pic of it ready to go!

[Gavin1393]

Geoff read my article...thousands have and their problems were all solved...

[baldrick]

Gavin, thanks for your reply. I've read the post you linked to and I'm still not certain that there will be enough adjustment left for intonation/compensation. However,having read many of your other posts, I KNOW that you know what you're talking about. Do you think it's OK to go ahead and apply the glue with the neck pushed in as "short" as it will go?

Cheers

Geoff

[baldrick]

In case anyone thinks I ought to trim a little wwbit off the neck to make it shorter but is hesitant to advise me to do so for fear of me stuffing it up, I have a fully equipped woodwork shop at my disposal and can do such things accurately if required. At this stage I feel I have the skills and equipment - knowledge is what I' m lacking!

Thanks all

And if Pitbull builders in the Freo area want help in the workshop/equipment department, let me know and I'll help if I can.


Cheers

Geoff ( Baldrick)

[Brendan]

Geoff - Not knocking your skill level, but have seen a number of people with similar issues on the forum here and to date the advice has been everything's OK and then something about when you actually fret the note you bend the strings anyway and pick up a few mm.

BTW - you've got a beautiful guitar there May GOTM entrant?

[Gavin1393]

Hi Geoff,

You wrote "I need to make the nut to 12th fret distance the same as the 12th fret to saddle distance and it looks like I can't do that with the saddle holes in their pre-drilled position. Here's the measurements (it's an ES1GT by the way):

Nut (fretboard-side edge) to middle of 12th fret: 313.5mm"

I think the Video's mention this requirement and it's actually incorrect. I know Adam is planning on updating the videos at a future time but everyone is frantically busy with their real jobs! The key point is that you are measuring from the crown of the FRET to the EDGE of the nut on the FRETBOARD side of the nut. This measurement you have given is 313.5mm and will be the same for all the strings.

Next you wrote "Distances from 12th fret to saddle (middle of each) with the neck pushed in as far as it will go and the saddle adjusters screwed forward towards the bridge pickup as far as they will go (ie the string would be as as "short" as possible):

Low E: 321.5
A: 321
D: 320
G: 319
B: 318.5
HighE: 318

All in mm. "


I'm glad you were detailed in your information, however your measurement should have been from the crown of the 12th FRET to the EDGE of the saddle in the BRIDGE PICKUP side of the SADDLE. This would knock off around 1.5mm off the length of measurement from the crown of the 12th fret. Further, to get corrected intonation you need to take into account the action of the guitar, in other words the height that the strings will be above the fret board and indeed the thickness of the strings themselves. The high E being the thinnest string would usually be allowed an additional 3mm in length. The thicker low E string would normally be around 6mm. This is why saddles are always angled in a good acoustic guitar and why the saddles are often split in the more expensive variety!

This is what I get when I adjust your earlier figures:
Low E: 321.5 less/minus approx 7.5mm to 8mm. For string thickness so 313.5 looks about perfect for the nut to 12th fret comparison, lets check the high E
A: 321
D: 320
G: 319
B: 318.5
HighE: 318. Minus 4.5mm. = 313.5mm

It's exactly 313.5mm! Looks like you have the makings of a really awesome guitar that will also play in tune!!