Set up and intonation on TL-1

[GlennGP]

Okay, so I'm into the nitty gritty now, and I've hit an issue that the instructional videos and other advice here don't appear to address. I'm going to describe my set up process so far so that, hopefully, someone can spot something I've either done wrong or overlooked - or, alternatively, end up as puzzled as me.

As background, I've been tuning guitars for years and I also play piano and brass, and sing. My ear is pretty reliable (I used to be able to perfectly pitch B natural, though that seems to have gone now). Anyway, the concept of checking for intonation by playing the string at the twelfth fret to produce a note one octave above open tuning is a very straightforward one to me.

So I set up the saddles on the Tele first to eliminate buzzing and then come back as close as I dared to the buzz. In doing so I noted the neck had some back bow, so I loosened off the truss rod to try to get rid of that. Using a straight edge to check, there didn't appear to much difference. The bow didn't disappear, so I reasoned it may take a day or two to flex and I pressed on by raising the saddles to get the desired effect.

I then adjusted the saddles back or forward to set up intonation, as instructed on the videos. I'm happy with the way that's set up.

The problem is that the notes on all strings at the 1st, 2nd and 3rd frets are all a bit sharp. This effect reduces (probably logarithmically) the closer I get to the 12th. At the 1st, though it's chronic. Instead of sounding a semi-tone up, it's only a few degrees off a full tone. Not good.

To my mind this probably indicates that the strings are stretching when they're being pressed down here, producing a higher pitch. Logically, the reason for this could be that the nut is too high. However, I'm keen to hear other theories.

If it is the nut, I'd also be interested in a process to rectify this. At the moment, as you can imagine, it's not a very pleasant guitar to play down at the skinny end!

[dingobass]

Sounds to me that it is the plastic nut...... god I hate plastic nuts.... Bone for tone....

Generally speaking, the factory machine made nuts are way too high.

You will find that if you can file the grooves deeper ( i have used old strings to do this) and then raise the bridge to stop the dreaded fret buzz and the notes will sound more on pitch.

[Gavin1393]

Quote from dingobass on March 16, 2013, 19:26
Sounds to me that it is the plastic nut...... god I hate plastic nuts.... Bone for tone....

Generally speaking, the factory machine made nuts are way too high.

You will find that if you can file the grooves deeper ( i have used old strings to do this) and then raise the bridge to stop the dreaded fret buzz and the notes will sound more on pitch.

Glenn, what is the measurement from the nut to the 12th fret and from the 12 fret to the saddle? Can you send us some pictures of the saddle from above the saddle, pictures of the nut from bith sides of the 'e' strings so we can see height abve the fretboard and then a picture at the 12th fret again so we see the height of the strings above the fretboard.

[Gavin1393]

Quote from Gavin1393 on March 16, 2013, 20:33

Quote from dingobass on March 16, 2013, 19:26
Sounds to me that it is the plastic nut...... god I hate plastic nuts.... Bone for tone....

Generally speaking, the factory machine made nuts are way too high.

You will find that if you can file the grooves deeper ( i have used old strings to do this) and then raise the bridge to stop the dreaded fret buzz and the notes will sound more on pitch.

Glenn, what is the measurement from the nut to the 12th fret and from the 12 fret to the saddle? Can you send us some pictures of the saddle from above the saddle, pictures of the nut from bith sides of the 'e' strings so we can see height abve the fretboard and then a picture at the 12th fret again so we see the height of the strings above the fretboard.

Looking at your pictures from the other thread and I do appreciate that these may have changed, the saddles seem to be at 90 degrees to the strings, i am using a wilkinson on my tele and the saddles angle slightly to allow for the correct intonation. The intonation cannot be correct otherwise. The saddle also seem to be too far off from one another to suggest that intonation will be anywhere near correct. As i said i do appreciate that you may have materially altered the saddles since you took that picture.

[adam]

It's definitely the nut. They seem to use different height nuts on different kits; some re good, some aren't. I'd take DB's advice and invest in a bone nut... quite inexpensive and probably something we should add to the "extras" page.

[dingobass]

Quote from adam on March 16, 2013, 21:26
It's definitely the nut. They seem to use different height nuts on different kits; some re good, some aren't. I'd take DB's advice and invest in a bone nut... quite inexpensive and probably something we should add to the "extras" page.

Looks like I am going to have to make a nut cutting video....

[Gavin1393]

Quote from dingobass on March 16, 2013, 22:08

Quote from adam on March 16, 2013, 21:26
It's definitely the nut. They seem to use different height nuts on different kits; some re good, some aren't. I'd take DB's advice and invest in a bone nut... quite inexpensive and probably something we should add to the "extras" page.

Looks like I am going to have to make a nut cutting video....

As long as you're not the nut being cut you should be fine!! I have been oblivious to the nut issue as I hate plastic and have bought brass nuts for all my electrics...

[GlennGP]

Thanks for all contributions. I'll let it all settle out today (I only did the set up yesterday arvo) and then I'll go through the whole process again and see where I end up.

I'm assuming I'd need some kind of solvent to get the plastic nut out, if I was going that way. What kind? Yes, a "nut cutting" video would be good (as much as the name makes me wince)!

I'll do photos of various bits as Gavin suggested above if I still have a problem after resetting.

Thanks again! One thing I have noticed about the Yellow Peril's sound is that it has a sustain like I've never experienced on an electric. You know that scene in Spinal Tap ... "I could be just holdin' it ... and holdin' it ... "? It's like that. Amazing.

[dingobass]

OK, now for DB's method for removing the nut.....

If it is a end of the fretboard type, such as found on G types give it a short sharp tap with a plastic faced hammer.
If you don't have one of those use a block of timber and smack it one. ( from the fretboard side)

For F types that have the nut recessed, run a cut down the centre of the nut ( length ways) till you are nearly through to the fretboard with a hack saw.
Then get out the pliers and crush the nut... Ouch....
It should then come away.

There will be some glue residue that you will need to carefully remove, a small square needle file will work for this.

[GlennGP]

Quote from dingobass on March 17, 2013, 08:01
OK, now for DB's method for removing the nut.....

If it is a end of the fretboard type, such as found on G types give it a short sharp tap with a plastic faced hammer.
If you don't have one of those use a block of timber and smack it one. ( from the fretboard side)

For F types that have the nut recessed, run a cut down the centre of the nut ( length ways) till you are nearly through to the fretboard with a hack saw.
Then get out the pliers and crush the nut... Ouch....
It should then come away.

There will be some glue residue that you will need to carefully remove, a small square needle file will work for this.

Thanks for the tips DB.

On playing the Yellow Peril this morning it appears to have settled out a bit. The neck is now dead flat and the problem at the bottom end isn't nearly so marked. I'll have to re-set the action and intonation to see if that shakes out the remaining gremlins. What with a set of new strings settling in at the same time as all these other adjustments it's a bit tricky to work out what's causing a problem at any given moment. I'm sure it'll work out though. And it really is so pleasurable to pick up and play a guitar that I made. That's priceless.