What Luthiers glues to use for Guitar building

[dingobass]

Luthiers glues.

When it comes to gluing your guitar there are a few things worth knowing, such as what glue to use and why this is important.

First I want to talk about the most common glues used in lutherie.

1. P.V.A is one of the most commonly found glues, every hardware store and most super markets stock some form of P.V.A. There are some issues with this glue, which I will discuss later.

2. Aliphatic Resin glue, can be purchased from specialty wood craft stores.

3. Hide glue, a traditional glue used by luthiers. Hide glue is available from lutherie suppliers and some specialty wood craft stores. Hide glue can be purchased in ready to use liquid or granulated form.

4. Cyano acrylic or super glue. Again readily available from hardware and super markets. Again there are issues with these glues that will be covered later.



P.V.A is a general purpose glue used for adhering timber to timber joins in carpentry and some cabinet making. While it is sufficiently strong enough for these applications it does have a few short comings when used for Lutherie.

P.V.A glues generally do not form a bond that is stronger than the timber being joined. P.V.A glues are also prone to thermo plastic creep, i.e. they expand and contract with differing temperature and humidity conditions.

Another problem with P.V.A glues is that over time they can become brittle and have been known to 'let go' when it is most inconvenient for them to do so.

Generally, I tend to avoid using P.V.A glue in my custom builds on joints that are under stress, such as necks and fret boards. I will use P.V.A for adhering top woods and peg head veneers as the slight flexibility of P.V.A is useful in these situations.

Aliphatic Resin Glues are again a general purpose adhesive that is being used more frequently in the cabinet making industry and are gaining wide spread use in Lutherie.

Aliphatic Resin glue forms a stronger than wood bond that is slightly flexible. This is highly desirable when fixing necks to bodies as a strong joint assists with sustain.
Aliphatic Resins also resist thermo plastic creep.

I have been using Franklin Titebond glue with great results, Franklin Titebond is available from most specialist wood crafting and Luthiers suppliers.

Hide Glue is the traditional glue used by Luthiers and Cabinet Makers. As the name suggests, it is an animal based glue made from cow or rabbit skins.

Hide glue is water soluble and is available as a liquid or granular product.

Hide glue also requires the purchase of equipment such as heated glue pots and brushes which makes it economically inviable for the hobbiest Luthier.

Mastering the use of hide glue takes some time as it is generally used as a hot glue, which requires the user to be highly organised as you have about 15 – 20 seconds to apply the glue and clamp before it starts to set.
The only time I would recommend the use of hide glue is for the repair of vintage instruments.


Cyano Acrylic or Super glue is used for attaching binding, inlays, fretwork and also can be used as a drop fill for chips in guitar finishes.

The super market form of super glue is unsuitable for Lutherie as it is usually not of the correct consistency or quality needed.

Stewmac.com in the U.S.A offer a range of super glues for Luthiers. They are Thin, Medium and Thick and also tinted varieties.

Thin super glue is used for jobs such as gluing frets, filling chips in fret boards and gaps between binding and bodies. It can also be used as a hard finish on fret boards.

For chip and gap filling, fill the chip or gap with fine sandings and place a few drops of glue. The wicking nature of this glue will enable an invisible filling that can be sanded back When re seating frets, clamp the fret down and add a few drops of glue along either side. This will hold the fret in place.

Medium glue can be used for fixing inlays, nuts and as drop fill in surface chips on a guitars finish.

Thick glue is used for attaching bindings, inlay work and as a drop fill in larger chips and scratches in a guitars finish.

To fix a chip or dent in the finish of a guitar you will need a razor blade, fine wet and dry (1500 – 2000 grit) and polishing paper or compound. If the chip has removed some of the underlying paint, you will need to match the colour before adding the glue.

Using a tooth pick, drop some glue into the chip and let this set. Keep adding glue until it forms a slight mound. With the razor blade, carefully scrape the mound level with the surface then polish until it has blended in. With care and patience you can make most chips and dents disappear.

If you have any questions regarding the use of any of the glues discussed in this article, I am more than happy to try and answer them.



Phil.

[Gavin1393]

Titebond is also capable of being steamed to loosen a joint. I have removed the bridges off an acoustic and removed fretboards glued with Titebond as opposed to Hide Glue

[dingobass]

)

I once went on a mission to find Titebond in my locale, and was out of luck finding the right stuff. So I stick with hide. Everyone has their preference, and I don't think anyone can say that one isn't right (unless it's epoxy...

Hi
Titebond ia available from Carbatec, they have stores in all capitol cities and will ship to you via their on line service.

Dingobass,

educate me in the ways of Titebond. I'm going to slap a couple of pieces of tree together to see how it goes.

What surface preparation is required?
What about clamping and clamping pressure?
Curing time?
How does it react to finishes?
Anything else I need to know?

[dingobass]

educate me in the ways of Titebond. I'm going to slap a couple of pieces of tree together to see how it goes.

What surface preparation is required?
What about clamping and clamping pressure?
Curing time?
How does it react to finishes?
Anything else I need to know?[/quote]




Surface prep is much the same as with hide glue, make sure the bonding surfaces are free of oil etc.
I sand both surfaces with 80 grit to form a good "tooth", this also helps to hide the joint.

Apply a good coating on both surfaces and clamp firmly, wipe off any run out with damp cloth. When dry sand the joined areas to remove any glue that is left.

I generally leave the piece clamped for an hour, but 1/2 hour on a warm day is enough.

Curing time is 24 hours. after which you can adjust truss rods if used to adhere fingerboards and also string up and play set necks.

From my experience it takes most finishes readily, I have painted, used shellac and waxes with no adverse reactions or repelling problems.

Working time is usually around 5 minutes once the parts are brought together.

If you need to separate joins, heating or steaming will generally make it let go.

Hope that helps.

[Scott J.]

We all should know by now (from reading these posts) that glues ain't glues

... but what type of glue is the luthier's glue that PBG are selling? (I know it isn't a hide-glue!)

[keloooe]

i don't know, it smells like mayo, and seriously holds on to the bare wood!!!

[Scott J.]

Then I better make sure I don't confused and end up with it on my ham sandwiches! ;-D

[Muzza]

I found out that Masters sells Titebond for a fraction of what Carbatec charge. A 3.7 litre bottle is under $20 for the original Titebond glue.

Which brings me to my question - Which Titebond to use. It's available as I, II or III. III (Just over $30 for 3.7 litres) is slow curing, I guess meaning plenty of working time. II is weatherproof.

I'm assuming that we should be using Titebond I as that's what's in the picture above.

This video on YouTube had me stumped. It looks to me like he's gluing the binding on using nothing but Diggers acetone...

[Brendan]

Plastic binding can be glued on with Acetone - Titebond won't work. Titebond is a wood glue for wood to wood joins. Gavmeister (Gavin1393) actually uses Tarzan's grip for binding - which is different again. Acetone works by breaking down the plastic and forming a slurry type glue that joins to the wood / bonds with the plastic. I've seen that you can also patch binding with the same method. Ultimately - as the saying goes - there are many ways to skin your local feral animal - just need to find what works for you.

As for Titebond - use type I. From memory Type II is for food prep stuff (not sure if you're going to be eating off a guitar) and Type III is outdoors (from memory - don't hold me to it ).