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Thread: First build TL-1 Here we go!

  1. #11
    Overlord of Music McCreed's Avatar
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    Define "imperfections". Are they tool marks in the timber? Dents or scratches?

    Tool marks = more sanding. Dings, dents, scratches = filling then sanding.

    Whilst basswood typically doesn't require grain filling, if you have dings or dents (from transport or manufacture) you're usually better of filling them than trying to sand them out. Spot-sanding a ding or dent will only lead to other problems by creating an uneven surface.

    You may just need to sand flat like Simon suggested and re-apply the primer. I've had bodies that required doing this a couple of times before I got a nice flat primed surface.

    Also using a "primer surfacer" works well as it has quite a high level of solids in the mixture and is intended to "fill" to a certain degree.
    That said, it is not a substitute for grain filling or for fixing dings.
    Making the world a better place; one guitar at a time...

  2. #12
    They were very small dings
    I got some wood filler which helped but after a sand back and respray of primer they are still slightly visible
    There are only 3 and none are on the front.
    I don't want to be too anal, as much as I want it to be perfect, as it is highly unlikely I can produce a perfect finish on my first attempt
    So I've let the body hang in the garage to dry as much as possible
    There is still a slight paint smell present, not sure if this normal 24 hours later.
    I kept the primer coats at least 20 mins apart.
    I'll give it a light sand with 240 grit and hopefully get the colour on some time this week.

  3. #13
    Well, like many newbies before me my sanding of the primer gave me a bit of a setback!
    I sanded with 240 very, very lightly and the front and back were going well but got through the paint on the sharp edge of the Tele
    So, it's back to spraying again with the primer
    Might try 320 and 400 on the edges next time and 240/320/400 on the front and back

  4. #14
    GAStronomist Simon Barden's Avatar
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    Just try and avoid the edges as much as possible as any angle at all on the paper when you sand them and you are putting all the downward pressure of the paper onto just that edge, which makes it very easy to sand through. If it's any help, I still do it all the time. So it's certainly worth making an extra run around just the edges at the end of each spray coat to build up some extra thickness. But primer isn't a hard paint, and it doesn't take much extra pressure to sand through.

    But now is the time to make sure the surface is as flat as possible, and it's not that the edges are sitting slightly proud of the body, which will obviously lead to more sand-throughs in future every time you have another go at levelling (until the body is level).

  5. #15
    Overlord of Music McCreed's Avatar
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    ...as much as I want it to be perfect, as it is highly unlikely I can produce a perfect finish on my first attempt
    I've been doing this for a while, and I've yet to produce a truly flawless finish (or flawless anything!).

    Good advice from Simon on sanding the edges and applying "extra" coats on them when spraying. That is my method also. The only difference being that I do my edges first, then allow my coats on the flat surfaces to go "over" my edge coats.

    And when I get to the wet sanding stage of the process, I don't get carried away with levelling on the edges. One because orange peel is less likely to appear on radiused surfaces (runs are more of an issue there, but that's a whole other discussion) and two, the less I sand on the edges, the less chance of sanding through.

    Lastly, sand-throughs happen to all of us at some point.
    Making the world a better place; one guitar at a time...

  6. #16
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    FWIW I always use a guide coat (mist coat, dust cover) when I think I am getting close to enough primer/surfacer on the body.
    I usually use a matt black paint sprayed from about 12 inches away to just give the surface a heavily speckled appearance.
    This then sands off very quickly when I use a sanding block but leaves some speckles in the low areas, showing any unevenness in the surface. When all the guide coat sands off easily then you know you are flat.
    The end result in using the guide coat will be a very level final gloss coat - one step closer to the illusive 'flawless' finish!

    As said, just leave the edges and let the paint build up on them.

    Good luck.
    Cheers
    Ricky

  7. #17
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    To make your paint job easier make sure your sanding is perfect as that makes any later work much easier. With paint I never go any finer than 240 as stated earlier. Depending on how rough the body is to begin with I normally start with 80/120 and then move to 240 to finish. You have to remove all scratches before moving on. Seeing as wood is made up of fibres you can never expect a dead flat surface with the wood used in these guitars so don't get too upset as the only real finish you have to worry about is the final top coat. Try and always sand with the grain and not across as it will make you job a lot harder as it will produce deep scratches that are hard to remove. I personally never use straight primer due to wood characteristics and always use a primer filler. Primer is mainly used on metal as it is much smoother than wood to begin with and you need the filler in the primer to fill the wood. I normally put 2 good coats on and I never sand finer than 400 but always finish with 600 or I use a fine Scotchbrite. Use a dust coat as this shows any unevenness and it stops you from sanding through as once the dust coat is removed you should stop sanding and reapply some more primer filler as a single coat and then repeat the dust coat using the 600 until it is flat. Never sand along an edge as it is a sure way of sanding through. Always sand from the flat to the edge. If you need to sand a rough edge then go to a finer paper and again never sand along the edge. I never use a block for an edge I use my fingers and go slow over the edge at right angles. Then apply the first two good colour coats and sand with 800/1000 after the second just to make sure you take away any dust knobs or spatter from the spray can/gun. A good coat is a coat that when sprayed should look wet, not dry dust, and is an art in itself as there is a fine line between wet and one that runs and comes with experience. Then apply your final coat of colour and lightly sand with 1500 just to make sure it is flat. You only need a light sand if the previous coats are right. Then apply 2 good coats of clear and after the second sand with 1500, then apply a good final coat and sand with 2000/2500 or if you don't have it just use 1500, just means a little bit more polishing later. You don't have to apply clear if your colour coats are flat enough to polish but the clear coats just give it a little bit more durability and are much easier to get really flat and polish to a gloss finish. With experience your guitars will come out perfect as mine have but I have been doing this for 40 years so I have made all my mistakes earlier but as time goes by you will see how not to do it and do it right every time. Over the last few years I have moved away from wet and dry for finishing and moved over to Scotchbrites as I can produce a fine finish without worrying about water damage but it has taken me time to perfect that process but now I feel confident due to making my mistakes earlier. I have even moved away from cut and polish and use a rouge to polish as it allows me to fix damage without having to worry about a wax that needs to be removed but that comes with time and experience and a thirst to find new ways rather than stagnate and keep doing the same things and making the same mistakes over and over.
    Builds :
    # 1 - Non PBG ES-335
    # 2 - Non PBG Tele Thin line
    # 3 - Non PBG LP
    # 4 - Non PBG SG
    # 5 - RC-1
    # 6 - TL-1
    # 7 - ST-1 Custom
    # 8 - SGB-30 + Non PBG SG
    # 9 - Custom JRM-1DC 12 String
    #10 - Custom ST-1 with P90's
    #11 - Custom TL-1 with 27" Bari Neck
    #12 - Custom JZ-6 Jazzmaster
    #13 - AG-1 Factory Second
    #14 - Custom JZ-6 Bass vi
    #15 - EX-1R Factory Second
    #16 - AGM-1
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  9. #18
    Thanks all for your great advice
    I will get a can of acrylic colour late this week and dust coat it as prescribed and then sand back 240/320/400 very lightly avoiding the edges before going to colour next

  10. #19
    Well, this is a challenging process!
    Got some sanding matte black spray and and followed the instructions I'd been given
    I think I applied a bit too much black, and took a fair amount of primer back to wood.
    It's all a learning experience I guess, but also indicates the surfaces were not perfectly flat.
    Luckily I decided to get another can of primer, so it's back to almost square one.
    I'll give it a couple of primer coats (I'm applying more to the edges this time) and then I'll gently sand back again, hopefully for the last time before colour coat
    Last edited by Andrew Maizels; 14-10-2020 at 02:56 PM.

  11. #20
    My colour coats are done, but it is looking like a bit of a failure!
    Followed the process from Phrozen, but as warned, this is not easy for the unskilled!
    Got some drips and there is some dull streaking in the finish
    I've read one poster who advocates a light sand after colour with 600 grit
    I tried this on the worst drips and it certainly dulls the finish considerably
    Need advice whether to do an overall light sand with 600?
    Will I lose all my shine or will the clear coat restore this?
    Help???

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