Set up and intonation on TL-1

[keloooe]

Quote from dingobass on March 16, 2013, 22:08

Quote from adam on March 16, 2013, 21:26
It's definitely the nut. They seem to use different height nuts on different kits; some re good, some aren't. I'd take DB's advice and invest in a bone nut... quite inexpensive and probably something we should add to the "extras" page.

Looks like I am going to have to make a nut cutting video....

You should, cause I wanna start making my own bone nuts pretty soon!!!

[GlennGP]

All righty, so I've played the strings in a bit more and re-checked the neck. The neck is not actually dead flat as I thought, there's still a bit of back-bow in it, but there doesn't seem to be any more play in the truss rod to loosen it. With the string tension on for the last 72 hours I'd have thought it would have pulled up to at least flat by now, but not so. Problem no. 1 right there.

Anyhow, I reset the action and intonation - the saddles are now in a more orthodox configuration, but I still have the problem of the first couple of frets on each string producing notes that are too sharp. I really don't have the right tools for this job, but I improvised - a cutting blade and a nail file are suprisingly effective at deepening the slots in the nut. This appears to have improved things at the nut end, but now I have an action problem - the saddles are all very high and, by lowering the clearance at the nut, I've got buzz back. My main problem now is getting a flat neck.

I'm now wishing I'd checked how straight the neck was before stringing it up, because doing this job properly is going to involve taking the strings off, effectively wasting that set. Ah well. Gotta learn somehow.

[dingobass]

Hey Glenn,

I wouldn't worry to much about the neck just yet, it will take it a while to settle in.

Anywhere up to a few months in fact!

In the mean time you could try to let the tension off the truss rod to the point where it nearly rattles, and when you are done playing tune your strings up a key.
This will help pull it forwards.

Alternately you could try a heavy gauge set, I know it will throw your intonation off but it will help to bring that neck forward.

Leaning the guitar against the wall will add to the effect as well.

[keloooe]

Quote from dingobass on March 18, 2013, 17:04
Alternately you could try a heavy gauge set, I know it will throw your intonation off but it will help to bring that neck forward.

Personally, I use Ernie Ball Power Slinky's for all of my Axes, and it does a pretty good job at keeping my neck straight!!! So, get some power slinky strings (purple pack) and whack em on for a month, then revert to whatever you like, you might even like them!!!

EDIT: Forgot to mention to get your hands on some string cleaner, Ernie Ball's tend to rust faster...

[Gavin1393]

Quote from GlennGP on March 18, 2013, 15:52
All righty, so I've played the strings in a bit more and re-checked the neck. The neck is not actually dead flat as I thought, there's still a bit of back-bow in it, but there doesn't seem to be any more play in the truss rod to loosen it. With the string tension on for the last 72 hours I'd have thought it would have pulled up to at least flat by now, but not so. Problem no. 1 right there.

Anyhow, I reset the action and intonation - the saddles are now in a more orthodox configuration, but I still have the problem of the first couple of frets on each string producing notes that are too sharp. I really don't have the right tools for this job, but I improvised - a cutting blade and a nail file are suprisingly effective at deepening the slots in the nut. This appears to have improved things at the nut end, but now I have an action problem - the saddles are all very high and, by lowering the clearance at the nut, I've got buzz back. My main problem now is getting a flat neck.

I'm now wishing I'd checked how straight the neck was before stringing it up, because doing this job properly is going to involve taking the strings off, effectively wasting that set. Ah well. Gotta learn somehow.

Is the bow bending the 12th fret towards the strings or away from them?

When tuning the guitar, are you tuning each string by plucking the string at the same intensity that you play? Seriously, most people tune their guitar gently and then wonder why its not in tune when they play aggressively!

Are you playing the notes in the first frets with more force than necessary ( such as you would have to do if the nut was too high)?

When you say the saddles are too high, i assume your neck is attached correctly and I further assume that you have adjusted the bridge down using the adjustable screws? I'm sorry it is such a basic question, but need to check the obvious since it doesn't appear to be the nut that is too high.

[GlennGP]

Quote from Gavin1393 on March 18, 2013, 18:53

Quote from GlennGP on March 18, 2013, 15:52
[blah blah blah - what I said]

Glenn's responses in italics

Is the bow bending the 12th fret towards the strings or away from them?
The bow in the neck makes the 12th fret closer to the strings than at either end

When tuning the guitar, are you tuning each string by plucking the string at the same intensity that you play? Seriously, most people tune their guitar gently and then wonder why its not in tune when they play aggressively!
I tune at full intensity.

Are you playing the notes in the first frets with more force than necessary ( such as you would have to do if the nut was too high)?
Not sure what you mean here, but my diagnosis is that, since the string is further away from the fret board at the nut end than near the 12th, you have to push the string down further to make the note. When doing this it's like bending the string, producing a very slightly higher tone than it should. I hope that makes sense!

When you say the saddles are too high, i assume your neck is attached correctly and I further assume that you have adjusted the bridge down using the adjustable screws? I'm sorry it is such a basic question, but need to check the obvious since it doesn't appear to be the nut that is too high.
In order to clear the frets and eliminate buzz the saddles are set so that the ends of the worm screws in them are recessed in the saddles. I'd call that "high". Neck attachment looks fine - the screws have pulled the neck into the neck slot on the body nice and firmly, with no gap between the two. Bridge - saddles - I fear I may have run into a naming problem here. I'm calling the adjustable cylindrical bits with the slots for strings "saddles". The bridge is screwed down firmly against the body with the four screws supplied - I wouldn't have characterised them as "adjustable". If you mean the three sprung screws in the end of the bridge, which move the saddles back and forth, then yes, I've adjusted those to try to achieve good intonation following the technique on the intonation video.

[Gavin1393]

I think that this is where the problem might be? Since everything else seems to be correct.

Are you playing the notes in the first frets with more force than necessary ( such as you would have to do if the nut was too high)?
Not sure what you mean here, but my diagnosis is that, since the string is further away from the fret board at the nut end than near the 12th, you have to push the string down further to make the note. When doing this it's like bending the string, producing a very slightly higher tone than it should. I hope that makes sense!

[GlennGP]

Quote from Gavin1393 on March 19, 2013, 09:08
I think that this is where the problem might be? Since everything else seems to be correct.

Are you playing the notes in the first frets with more force than necessary ( such as you would have to do if the nut was too high)?
Not sure what you mean here, but my diagnosis is that, since the string is further away from the fret board at the nut end than near the 12th, you have to push the string down further to make the note. When doing this it's like bending the string, producing a very slightly higher tone than it should. I hope that makes sense!

Hmmm - so, step one: get the neck straight, then start checking off other elements. OK then!

[Gavin1393]

Glenn, can you measure the distance of the bottom/underside of the strings from the fretboard at the nut, the 7th Fret and 12th fret and let us know. Preferably as accurately as possible (inches) or precise mm....?

[GlennGP]

Quote from Gavin1393 on March 19, 2013, 11:09
Glenn, can you measure the distance of the bottom/underside of the strings from the fretboard at the nut, the 7th Fret and 12th fret and let us know. Preferably as accurately as possible (inches) or precise mm....?

I don't have anything accurate enough to give me fractions of mm, so they're all between 2-2.5mm, with the 7th and 12th being a bit less each than at the nut. Say, nut 2.5mmm the others a bit less each.