Lyn #14 - Solid-body Acoustic

[robin]

When I first put her together I had a plain uncompensated saddle but the tuning was not real good. Its fine for about 5 frets but from there on it got pretty ugly. I have read that like most fretted instruments guitar tuning is a compromise over the fretboard.

I guess that a lot of acoustic guitarists play more open chords than I am used to, so concentrate the tuning to that region of the fretboard. Being exclusively and electric player to date I play chords anywhere from open to the 10th or 12th fret making a compensated saddle fairly crucial. But like an acoustic guitar mine does sound best when you hear the chiming of new strings in the open chords. So maybe I might have to compromise my playing and not compromise the guitar.

Logo position was a no brainer Stan. I only have black waterslide decals and they would not show up on the Walnut stain of the headstock. The only place left was the body of the guitar. I thought it looked pretty cool, so there it stayed.

[Simon Barden]

It's going to be worth trying out some different string types as you get round to changing strings. I'd certainly go a bit heavier than your .009"s and at least try .010"s. Also try fitting acoustic strings. There's a reason they don't fit electric guitar strings to acoustics; they just sound so much thinner.

I suggest that you try out different string types and thicknesses, as it's all about matching the string characteristics to your guitar characteristics for the best sounding results. You may find that light electric strings sound best on it, or it may sound better with slightly heavier phosphor bronze strings. You may even find that the intonation improves by changing string type or thickness (though it could also be made worse). It's going to cost a few dollars to experiment, but I think it would be worthwhile to do. It is a very nice looking guitar indeed and deserves every chance to sound its best.

[robin]

Thanks Simon.

I buy the .009's in bulk so had a few sets laying around so I thought I'd try them first. I'm a bit of a wuss when it comes to strings and like a light gauge, but might give some heavier ones a try. Not sure I want to go to acoustic strings as I think they only have 2 plain strings which will need a different compensated saddle. But I'll never say never.

I know what you mean about the 009's sounding thin, but the guitar will never be used as a solo guitar (as in there will always be other guitars playing) so my thinking was that the lighter strings would help cut through the mix. I am yet to seriously try any EQ or Amp Sims so that will be another avenue to thicken it up a bit.

Thanks for your input mate, you know heaps more about this stuff than me, and I appreciate the help.

[Simon Barden]

We're all still learning as we go along, me especially. But sometimes it's good to do some experimenting yourself, rather than just listen to other peoples opinions (which are often learnt from others and so-on). Then you will actually know what happens when you change string gauges and types, rather than just think you know.

I think I've seen a set of acoustic 0.010"s that come with a plain third. Or you can just make your own hybrid set up with a third from an electric set. Unless they are coated strings, then there's no basic difference between electric and acoustic plain strings - just the wound ones.

Is your intonation problem with the strings going flat or sharp up as you go up the neck? Or is it a mixture?

[robin]

Hey Simon, it seems to be varying degrees of sharp on all strings. Which I didn't notice when I first strung it up.

I am pretty sure that the saddle is being dragged forward a tiny fraction in the saddle slot when I bring the stings up to tension, shortening the string by the barest fraction. I presume that the wound strings are biting into the bone saddle and tilting it forward. The problem is being exacerbated by the piezo pickup effectively rising the floor level of the slot allowing the saddle to tilt slightly.

I will remove the saddle and inspect it for any obvious nicks etc that could catch on the strings. Also I have not used any lube on the saddle so I will try some graphite as its all I've got at present. Last resort will be to see if I can squeeze a tiny sliver of veneer into the front of the slot forcing the saddle back a fraction.

As DB's signature says "There is always a workaround for glitches, mistakes and other Guitar building gremlins....."

[Simon Barden]

A very small amount won't make any significant difference to the intonation. If it's that bad, then you'll probably need a couple of mm.

Thicker strings might help, but I've never noticed any significant change in intonation when swapping from .012"s to .011"s (or vice versa) on an acoustic.

If the saddle isn't sitting up straight in its slot, then you really need to make a wider saddle that fits better, rather than bodge it. Sounds like you need to make it all move back as far as you can.

One fix might be to get a wider bone blank. then create a dog-leg structure (from the side), so there's a bit that fits in the slot, then it sets back away from the neck, then goes upright again. You'd need a good fit in the slot so it doesn't tip back, but it might provide the extra distance you need.

Otherwise it's time to take the bridge off, repair the finish on the body, and then move the bridge back a bit. You'd have to try and rig up a temporary saddle. maybe just for one string, to work out how far back it needs to move. Once it's off, you could buy or make a bridge like on some Takamines, where the strings are anchored at the back of the bridge, not in pegholes through the body, then you can clamp the bridge in place and move it around to find the correct position for it when the strings are on. The bridge should still cover any holes drilled, or if you stick with the same bridge but just move it, you could elongate the existing holes backwards.

It's going to be heartbreaking work to start with, but if it gives you a better guitar at the end, it will be worth all the effort.

[Ghaynas]

Hi Antonio, thank you very much for the complement. I did a quick demo recording here

http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au...light=acoustic

As it turns out the intonation problems aren't quite solved yet, but before I do any more work I will leave it for a week or two so she can settle in a bit. No point making changes now if there will be further movement in the next few weeks.

Cheers mate
rob

OMG that sound awesome! I'm sure that the intonations problems that are refered by you are still there, I'm sure they are there, but I swear that nothoing can be noticed, I suppose that if you use a tuner then you can notice them, but at the ears of a common mortal it sounds to glory, I really tell you that nothing is appreciated, it's only heard a good guitar that sounds even better, nothing else.

Now I really can say: congratulations!, it's sounds more than good, it's awesome, excellent.

[Simon Barden]

Unfortunately, once known, it can't be un-known, and it's going to haunt Robin until he can fix it. It would do that to me.

[Nickosaurus]

Hey Robin awesome build mate. What was the neck from?

[robin]

@Antonio,
Thanks mate. It sounds OK playing open chords (like in the Demo) but starts having intonation problems from about the 5th fret on. Not to worry, with Simon's help I'm sure I can overcome. lol.

@Nick,
Thanks mate. The neck is a PBG bolt-on Gibson neck. I opted for some Grover Tuners (also from PBG) at the same time. Adam has a good deal with those if purchased in conjunction with kit, body or neck. Well worth the extra $$s.

@Simon,
"Once known, it can't be un-known" lol. That's me all over. Until I get it fixed I will never be happy.

Removing the Bridge is an ABSOLUTE last resort. I will re-visit the current saddle and see what can be done, maybe there is a smidge of adjustment to be made with the the compensation cuts, but most likely an off-set saddle might be the easiest solution.

I think for the short term I might just stick to open chords and enjoy it for a bit, regroup and then try a full frontal assault later on. But there is no way I will be happy until she is intonated properly.

Cheers guys
rob