Dark stain to highlight grain

[ScoopD]

Hi guys - I've seen a number of builds where the person building has done a dark stain, then sanded back so the grain is still dark and done a different colour as the main colour. Particularly on some of the flamed caps this looks absolutely fantastic, but I have not seen an explanation on the procedure for this.

So what I would like to know is - do you do that dark stain before you have even started sanding, at some stage during the sanding process or after you have finished the sanding? If it is later in the process do you go back a few grades of grit and taper down again? Is there a special technique to the initial dark stain e.g. do you "water" the stain down a bit so it goes into the grain, but not in the bare wood or something? Do you do several coats of the dark stain, or is that just making more work for the sanding? Is there a process for the post stain sanding so that you don't end up removing all the grain highlighting, or is it just sand and see? I would just have a crack, but I don't want to ruin a build for lack of asking a few questions.

I'm not even finished my first build and am thinking about my next one
I'm thinking a TL-1A with darkened grain then butterscotch (when DB decides it is good enough to release). Not really settled on a neck yet. I know the butterscotch Tele is not particularly original which is why I was thinking of the darkened grain against the yellow/amber. Besides, there is a reason that some colours on some designs become a classic - because they just look good

[gavinturner]

Hey Scoop,

There's a few of issues at play here, and many people use different techniques to achieve varied results. From my own experiences I have found all of the following useful.

Firstly, If you are talking about a veneer, you need to sand as little as possible. Those things are *thin* and you can easily sand through. It stands to reason therefore that if you want to pop the flames with an initial stain, then you should do it as early as possible in the sanding process. I tend to use the initial stain not only to pop the figure, but also to show up any glue spots on the veneer. If you need to sand out any glue, you can touch these areas up with more stain if need be. This technique has saved me many times in the past.

Secondly, in general the "figure" in the veneer will take more stain than the wood around it. This is because the cells making up the figure typically go "into" the wood and not along the surface - they are "deeper" than the non figured grain. So the figure gets darker faster. Ths is why you can sand away the "shallow" stained cells leaving the stained figure behind.

Another way you can look at this is that the non-figured wood reaches its "saturation point" faster than the non-figured wood. So if you keep wiping stain over the veneer, the non-figured cells will quickly reach a point where they stop taking any more liquid, while the figure will continue to absorb more. There's a neat video on youtube from Canadianbreed guitars where the dude uses this fact to first apply a light stain to the whole top, and then a darker stain while the top is still wet. The darker stain goes into the figure beause the rest of the wood is saturated. You can get more dark stain into the figure by saturating the other parts of the veneer before application. This is balanced by the fact that too much water may cause the glue holding the veneer to loosen.

Finally, if you are using water-based stain then you can always pull colour back out of the veneer using a clean damp rag. In the same way that the stain in the figure goes deeper than the non-figured parts of the wood, this means that the figure is more reluctant to let go of its stain.

All of these fact are useful when thinking about popping your figure. Some might be useful to you. Or maybe I just waffled on too much.

cheers,
Gav.

[west0288]

Hey, Scoop.

From my (limited) experience, I've found a few things, which I'll outline here. I'm sure some of the more experienced luthier brethren on here will prove me wrong, but here's what works for me:
1: Sand the body to remove all machine marks, glue spots, blemishes, etc. (but be careful to not sand through the thin cap). I normally go to no more than 400, though you could probably get away with a lower grit at this stage.
2: Apply your dark colour. I've used both a black water-based dye, and a Wudtone. Wipe off your excess as you go, and allow this to dry. If you're happy with how dark the 'highlighted' parts are, move on to step 3.
3: Sand back, going up through the grits again. As before, you really shouldn't need to go much higher than 400. Also, ensure you remove any marks from the previous grit (I learnt the hard way...).
4: Apply your chosen colour coat, until you get the preferred colour level.
5: ????
6: PROFIT!

I've attached some photos for you to as well, to see how the process evolves. Hopefully I've been a bit of help, but as I said, I'm sure someone can provide a better run-down than me.

Water-based Black (not sanded)


After Colour


Dark Onyx Wudtone (sanded back)


Azure Lagoon Wudtone Colour Coat

[west0288]

Also, bear in mind that the application of your clears will make the "pop" even more pronounced, and give you that beautiful 3D effect, like so: