Stans LP build

[stan]

thanks for the support guys, worst thing is I got to a point where I was actually happy with the finish.

All part of the fun,should have it ready for December GOTM haha

The neck is coming along great though, so still a positive

[bargeloobs]

I've kind of notice people on here seem to dis nitro a little bit but you know you can handle that stuff without fear of fingerprints after only 5 minutes. That headstock I just finished took me just 2 days with 8 coats of clear sanded and cut n polished. If I'd been using acrylic or poly I'd still be waiting for the coats to dry in this cold weather...and waiting....
I'm just saying is all, a bit of food for thought.

[Gavin1393]

/<\\/p>[/<\\/p>[/<\\/p>[/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/]<\\/p>/]<\\/p>/]<\\/p>/Quote from bargeloobs on May 28, 2014, 11:42
I've kind of notice people on here seem to dis nitro a little bit but you know you can handle that stuff without fear of fingerprints after only 5 minutes. That headstock I just finished took me just 2 days with 8 coats of clear sanded and cut n polished. If I'd been using acrylic or poly I'd still be waiting for the coats to dry in this cold weather...and waiting....
I'm just saying is all, a bit of food for thought.

Hey Bargeloobs, First things first...

You mentioned 'Nitro' (as I have just done) so we will have to continue our discussion in the Naughty Room where beer is on tap and Pizza's in the oven.

For your and anyone else who thinks we dis Nitro, we don't really. We just aren't that excited about the tone killing properties of the product. It certainly looks great. So what follows is not a defence of our view but more of an explanation of it. We recognise that there are other who disagree with our view.

DB and I and a number of others on the forum are TONE-focussed. the history of guitar finishes is an interesting one. Initially the Fenders and Gibsons of the world were quite happy applying a finish (possibly reminiscent of Wudtone / Dingotone) because they had less of a demand for the product than would be experienced shortly after. They had time to allow their paint to sure properly.

But the tone of these guitars (many of which are classics today) was terrific, but there came a point where to increase production and to get the end product to the market they had to come up with something that dried and cured faster, hence the introduction of Nitro (don't worry - Nitro is an allowable word in the Naughty Room.) This meant the end product was finished faster and looked great too. Unfortunately, in the view of many TONE was compromised. There is a debate around this - it depends on your ear and what you are used to and what you know is possible.

Perhaps by way of illustration consider a great voice singing naturally versus putting a fish bowl over your head and singing.... Particularly relevant with acoustic guitars where the difference is so audible that Taylor's new 800 series is now painted with an extremely thin but durable UV product. The Taylors now sound sensational whereas to my ears even their top of the range guitars used to go "Thud" when you played them rather than 'sparkle'.

Again the debate with electrics is interesting because the view held is that the sound only comes from the pickups. But what are the pickup picking up? The strings. What influences the tone, sustain and vibration of the strings? The nut and the bridge, and these are attached to the material of the guitar, be that a variety of wood, metal, oil can, cigar box, Perspex, etc. With an acoustic guitar the body is designed to be an 'air pump'. The better the vibration of the soundboard, the better the 'sound' that emanates from the guitar. This is why you will find that a soundboard of an acoustic is usually always a 'light wood' like Bunya, Sitka, Adirondack, cedar, redwood, etc. and the back and sides will be a hardwood like the rosewood family (Indian, Brazilian, Honduran, Madagascar), cocobolo, Zebrawood, Katalox, Ebony family, etc. The mahogany, maple and Koa is considered a medium wood and hence sometimes you will find the soundboard and the back and sides of the guitar will be constructed in that wood. The ability of the body to vibrate will be influenced by the choice of wood. This is true also of electrics which is why different wood tend towards different tonal properties. However, the moment you throw copious amounts of finish on to the wood, these properties are altered because the wood will not vibrate in the same way. This changes how the strings behave and ultimately what the pickups will amplify. Again all this can be altered by the sound processors, but garbage in garbage out.... to some extent.

Hence, while DB, myself and others will marvel at the beauty of a Nitro finish, we would compromise the rich deep gloss of a nitro finish for pure TONE. Wudtone certainly retains the tone of a well built and well thought out instrument but lacked the depth that is seen in a Nitro finish. Dingotone achieves both Tone and Depth of finish.

[keloooe]

Nice workaround Stan! Must be great to have more progress on the build

[stan]

great explanation Gav!

Will Dingotone go over acrylic paint and does it come in gloss and satin clears?

Thanks Pest, but looks like the finishing begins again to some degree, didn't you have a recent birthday - congrats!

[stan]

OK time for more pics.
Firstly, the body is still giving me grief, the patchup job from the last finish mishap continues.

So, it was time to shape the headstock.

Mark it out using rulers and pencils and stuff, cut with a hand saw (as I did, but you can also use a jigsaw, dremmel, laser, termites, whatever), but leave a bit to finish by hand. You could also use a paper template, tape, whatever works for you and gives the result you are after





You get the idea. Leave enough fat to trim some off, otherwise , the smallest mistake will wreck the headstock - make a big enough error and you might need a whole new neck. (I'd try other fixes first, however Sod's law states you will destroy it...)

So you end up with this, ready to be hand finished (I used a dremmel to get closer, then filed by hand):



NOW: here is the reason I have to keep refinishing the back. Notice in the pic above the neck clamped to the bench to keep it in place whilst I cut? The pressure has caused the fabric (an old cotton sheet) underneath to leave an imprint on the paint.



This neck has only the satin black, no top clear. Acrylic. Helped along with a heat gun well after it was touch dry. In fact about a day after. The last coat was put on about 2 weeks ago, and the neck has been hanging in the shed since then...

WTF! This is expensive Upol aerosol paint. It is good stuff. this does not come from the green shed that remains nameless. This has been sanded with high quality automotive wet and dry (wet sanded) between coats left a day apart between coats. It has been cold, but I am warming the paint and the piece to be painted.

Now the body isn't clamped at all, it was just laying there whilst I did the top on a nice clean cloth (careful inspection of any overspray on the cloth in other shots will reveal the essence of the top colour...)for about an hour.

All I can say is AAARRRGGHHH!!!

Happy to hear from any of the paint gurus for this one. Can I put it in a cool oven?

Anyway, fixed this, hung the neck up, and here is a look at it - not fully finished, but you can see the result:

[bargeloobs]

I can't say I've seen anything close to that on a LP headstock before but it really works man, that satin's gonna look insane.
Making progress now!

[gavinturner]

Nice headstock Stan - simple and effective! Well done.

cheers,
Gav.

[jarrod]

If the paint is thick Stan it can take along time to cure.

[jarrod]

And Gav, I completly agree with you which is why i keep the Acrylic very thin but still wont hold the same tone qualities as dingo tone to the experienced ear. How ever I dont see that 10 + coats of tru oil is any different. Also on an electric guitar if don't put decent electrics in side and good quality pups then you may as well cover your guitar in tar. So as much as I agree with you , all the planets need to line up to get a great sound. I have a Les Paul I have built that has amazing tone qualities and sustain to die for , made in mahogany and maple cap and acrylic finish. acustic guitars are a totally diferent ball game.