Esquire-esque

[EsquireEsque]

The back of the neck heel is flat.

For the low E buzz:
Is it for all frets or just some?
Is your neck set to slightly concave? Can you raise the low E bridge saddle a touch?

It was for all frets.
The nut, when the kit arrived, was very high, so I sanded it down a bit (which made a massive change for the better - just left a bit of fret buzz) I made the adjustment based on the height of the nut on my telecaster (Jet brand). I may have sanded the low E side a hair too low - but the nut is still just over a millimetre higher from the fretboard than the nut on my telecaster.

I've levelled the frets, adjusted the "relief" and the bridge saddle height but it took a bit to get rid of the buzz - which has gone mostly, if the string is plucked "with vigour" there is still a bit.

The "action" is now possibly a bit high, I do tend to "catch" that string when "I help my daughter" (it seems the more I practice the better she gets - of course, she thinks it's her!) but obviously if I lower it I run into the fretbuzz again.

This has made me think that if the fretboard was a bit lower (if the neck socket a tiny bit deeper (no more than a mil or so) that might be the cause - and I can lower the saddle height/action just a tad.

Otherwise it's working rather well acoustically (it's not wired yet), a touch "twangy" and high pitched and to my ear a bit louder than expected - but I'm putting that down to the Douglas Fir, the 24.75" scale length and the lighter strings (9's).

[Trevor Davies]

I think that either:
lowering the neck (and fretboard), or raising the saddle,
will have the same effect. Both will raise the string action along the fretboard. If you lower the fretboard, you will then need to adjust the saddle heights to get a good action! Easier to just raise the saddles. I do not think a 1 to 2 mm higher neck should be a real concern.

For "catching the string" - If you raised the low E saddle, did you also raise the A, D, G to match the 12 inch curvature of the fretboard?

For the "twangy" - I think that is the same for any solid body played acoustically.

[EsquireEsque]

Yes, that's the idea.... lower the fretboard so the saddle and nut hight can also be lowered just a bit.

The other saddles are pretty much right.


But I missed your other answer - "The back of the neck heel is flat"....

The back of the neck heel is slightly rounded in the 24.75" necks..... at least that's the case for the two that I've bought so far.
The backs of the headstocks are flat - but the heel is slightly rounded so as to be (I'm estimating) a mm or so thicker along the middle, as if it has a radius of 16".
An easier (?) way to achieve the same thing might be to sand the back of the heel flat


The "twangy" is in comparison to the Telecaster or my daughter's Stratocaster if they are also played acoustically. I believe those are both made of Basswood.

I'm thinking it's a feature of the Douglas Fir.
I wonder if Pine is the same?

[fender3x]

I think TD meant that the neck is flat where it contacts the body. The fretboard side is radiused, so a little higher in the middle, but the bottom should be flat on any bolt on I have seen.

I am with TD on the choice. Raise the saddle. It doesn't sound like the problem is the nut. At least not the main problem. If it were, the low E would only buzz at the first fret, but not on the others.

The first thing to check is the relief (truss rod adjustment). If/when it looks right, then adjust the saddle until there's no buzz (or very little). Since none of the other strings are buzzing, I would confine adjustments to the Low E string.

I would not lower the fretboard because that will make the action on the other strings higher.

I can't recall if you leveled the frets before setup? If the low E side of the frets is high, that could also cause the problem you are describing.

One thing I would REALLY recommend, is to put a capo at the first fret (so it plays F rather than E). See if you can get he buzz out of the low E string with the first fret capo'd before messing with the nut. If you can get it to stop buzzing that way it may stop buzzing with the capo off too. If the action on the low E is high enough to bother you once you have the buzz out, then the bass side frets may be a little high.

Most kit necks have 12" radii. Using similar string gauges, I am guessing that the "ideal" string height may be a little higher on a G-length neck than an F-length because the string tension is lower. Since the tension is lowest on the low E string it makes sense that it would be the first to buzz.

The only things that I can think of that would make ONLY the low E buzz no matter where it's fretted are (a) action too low (adjusted at the saddle), (b) bass side frets are too high (fixable by fret leveling and re-set up, or spot leveling on all frets...which would be a lot of work...or (c) a combination of low action at the saddle and nut too low on bass side (raise saddle, raise bass side of the nut--or use the baking soda and super glue trick on just the Low E nut slot).

[EsquireEsque]

I think TD meant that the neck is flat where it contacts the body. The fretboard side is radiused, so a little higher in the middle, but the bottom should be flat on any bolt on I have seen.

I am with TD on the choice. Raise the saddle. It doesn't sound like the problem is the nut. At least not the main problem. If it were, the low E would only buzz at the first fret, but not on the others.

The first thing to check is the relief (truss rod adjustment). If/when it looks right, then adjust the saddle until there's no buzz (or very little). Since none of the other strings are buzzing, I would confine adjustments to the Low E string.

I would not lower the fretboard because that will make the action on the other strings higher.

I can't recall if you leveled the frets before setup? If the low E side of the frets is high, that could also cause the problem you are describing.

One thing I would REALLY recommend, is to put a capo at the first fret (so it plays F rather than E). See if you can get he buzz out of the low E string with the first fret capo'd before messing with the nut. If you can get it to stop buzzing that way it may stop buzzing with the capo off too. If the action on the low E is high enough to bother you once you have the buzz out, then the bass side frets may be a little high.

Most kit necks have 12" radii. Using similar string gauges, I am guessing that the "ideal" string height may be a little higher on a G-length neck than an F-length because the string tension is lower. Since the tension is lowest on the low E string it makes sense that it would be the first to buzz.

The only things that I can think of that would make ONLY the low E buzz no matter where it's fretted are (a) action too low (adjusted at the saddle), (b) bass side frets are too high (fixable by fret leveling and re-set up, or spot leveling on all frets...which would be a lot of work...or (c) a combination of low action at the saddle and nut too low on bass side (raise saddle, raise bass side of the nut--or use the baking soda and super glue trick on just the Low E nut slot).

Yes - that's what I thought TD meant about the neck being flat too. Both of the shorter length necks I've bought seem to have a bit of a "roll" and are not completely flat.

The saddle is raised already quite high and the relief is rather noticeable.

I did "level the frets" (I used a flat beam about 2 cm wide and 30ish cm long with 250g sandpaper on it) but I do take note of your suggestion the frets might be higher on that side ... I think it's entirely possible if not probable - is there any way I can check?

I've also wondered if the lower tension in a 24.75" neck would result in a need for slightly higher action - but at the moment it's very high - particularly when you get to the12th fret and further..

[fender3x]

Yes - that's what I thought TD meant about the neck being flat too. Both of the shorter length necks I've bought seem to have a bit of a "roll" and are not completely flat.

Well that's odd. It should be totally flat. Still... even if the roll caused it to be a little higher on one side than the other you should be able to compensate with the bridge adjustment.

The saddle is raised already quite high and the relief is rather noticeable.

Curiouser and curiouser! Can you take some measurements? Capo the first fret. Hold down the Low E at about the 14th or 15th fret. In playing position, how much space is there between the string and the fret at about the 7th fret? Gibson says it should be around .010 and .012 inches (.25 and .3 mm). Next check the string action. Leaving the capo in place, how high are the E strings above the 12th fret? Gibson says about 2mm for the low E and 1.5mm for the low E.

I did "level the frets" (I used a flat beam about 2 cm wide and 30ish cm long with 250g sandpaper on it) but I do take note of your suggestion the frets might be higher on that side ... I think it's entirely possible if not probable - is there any way I can check?

That's a bit short. If you are using a sanding beam, it's best for it to sand all the frets at once using just the weight of the beam as pressure. Mine is about 60cm. That may not be the culprit. You can check with a fret rocker to see if there are any high/low spots. But I am guessing you've done that.

I've also wondered if the lower tension in a 24.75" neck would result in a need for slightly higher action - but at the moment it's very high - particularly when you get to the12th fret and further..

Gibson recommends a little more relief than Fender, but it should not be "very" high. With the capo on at the 1st fret does the low E buzz? Fingering all the way up the neck?

[fender3x]

... I do take note of your suggestion the frets might be higher on that side ... I think it's entirely possible if not probable - is there any way I can check?

The thing that bothers me about that idea is that you should be able to compensate for higher frets on one side at the bridge since you have six independent saddles. Particularly with a capo on the first fret, which takes the nut out of the equation.

There is a way to test this. you could put a fret radius gauge on each fret:



Most are 12" radius. If it is higher on one side, a 12" radius block should fix that problem. It's quite a bit of work to go to, however, so you'd want to be sure that's the problem.

[EsquireEsque]

Firstly, thank you for all your suggestions.

"That's a bit short. If you are using a sanding beam, it's best for it to sand all the frets at once using just the weight of the beam as pressure. Mine is about 60cm. That may not be the culprit. You can check with a fret rocker to see if there are any high/low spots. But I am guessing you've done that."

Understood - I'll make another levelling tool a bit longer.
Yes - there's no rocking.... of course that doesn't mean one side is not higher than the other....


"Curiouser and curiouser! Can you take some measurements? Capo the first fret. Hold down the Low E at about the 14th or 15th fret. In playing position, how much space is there between the string and the fret at about the 7th fret? Gibson says it should be around .010 and .012 inches (.25 and .3 mm). Next check the string action. Leaving the capo in place, how high are the E strings above the 12th fret? Gibson says about 2mm for the low E and 1.5mm for the low E."

My eyes aren't that good when it comes to the "fine graduations" though - but i'll try.
I've just changed the strings as one broke - I should have kept them as "gauges" to check (once I work out what they are in mm - I just cannot relate to fractional inches!)...... but:

capo'd at the first and fretted on the 17th frets - I'm going to guesstimate that the bottom of the string is about 0.5 mm.
Capo'd at he first fret - I'd say the gap at the 12th is about 2.5 mm for the low E and I brought it down to about 1.5 mm for the high e (no buzzing on the high e).
Capo'd at the first fret - the A string now has a little buzz to it as well.

"Gibson recommends a little more relief than Fender, but it should not be "very" high. With the capo on at the 1st fret does the low E buzz? Fingering all the way up the neck?"

I was unaware of that - are there any other differences in Gibson - as i've been using my Telecaster as a general "benchmark".... I may have more than one "inappropriate" thing!.

Does Gibson have a recommended height for the strings at the nut?
The Low E is about 2 mm above the fretboard.

But if I fret the low E on the first fret the buzz is still there (same with all the other frets - some are a little "more" than others).


To check if the frets are just higher in one side - I'll have to get a fret radius gauge. While looking - I saw this - would that be of any use? the idea would be to measure the fret heitnt at each end of the fret?


By the way - I don't have 6 saddles. It's a three barrel bridge (I went with the kit - next guitar has a Strat style hardtail - no tremolo).


And again- thank you for your help.
Very much appreciated.

[fender3x]

I was thinking that the G measurements might be better due to scale length. The measurements are not vastly different.

Looks like the string action (set at the bridge) is a little high on the bass side, and about right on the treble side. It also has a bit more relief than Gibson recommends.

I don't think you need to worry about the nut until you get the buzz out with the capo on. Normally it should come when the relief and string height are properly adjusted.

Before adjusting the nut check these potential sources of rattle:

Nuts around the tuning pegs are not screwed down tightly. Fix: tighten down the nuts.

On the bass strings, the bronze wire wrapped around the steel core has a break in it somewhere. Fix: Change the strings.

These may seem unlikely but they have both happened to me.

If you still hear rattle tighten down everything else to make sure it's not a sympathetic vibration.

I also wondered if you can identify where the buzz is coming from on the fretboard. Normal string buzz results from the vibrating string making contact with the fret(s).

You've tested for a popped up fret. You've leveled... That makes me wonder the strings may be too close to the fretboard up near where the neck joins the body? The truss rod will bow the neck, but not evenly. It bows less where it bolts on...and even out a ways.

If that's where it is buzzing on yours you might try the taper trick in this video:



People generally do this to get a faster action. I generally do this at the 12th fret. He does it at the 9th as well.

Will continue to ponder in any case...

[EsquireEsque]

I can't determine where the buzz is coming from. Sometines I think it's coming from the bridge.

Would a cheap bridge cause a buzz.

Do you think cheap tuners would cause a buzz?
I did notice at one stage when I strummed a single string (and not all 6 were on) that there was a lot of rattle, which turned out to be the tuners vibrating - I assumed this would end with all the strings on and all the tuners were under tension.

Both the tuners and the bridge are "from the kit".


I'll watch the video...... Interesting, it's a "second levelling process" with the last 10 or so frets "levelled" on a very slight decline....

I do wonder though - if I simply levelled the frets badly (using a shorter beam ...... or if the neck wasn't absolutely straight). Wouldn't be the first mistake I have to learn from.

I've just re-read youpost, in particular:
"I was thinking that the G measurements might be better due to scale length. The measurements are not vastly different"

Do you mean the "G string" (third string)?

capo'd at the first and fretted on the 17th frets - I'm afraid I just cannot see the bottom of the G string. I can make out that the top is under 1mm..
Capo'd at the first fret - I'd say the gap at the 12th is about 2 mm.