Astracaster First Build FS-1

[fender3x]

I probably like the blue best. One thing to consider is that colors sometimes fade, and sometime yellow a bit, the latter largely depending on the clear coat. I feel funny saying it since I have tried red on a couple of builds, including the one in my avatar, but red stain can easily become pink if you can't get it dark enough, or brown if UV sensitive (lots of Gibsons) or because of yellowing or time. My blues have been OK, I think mainly because I use a water based top coat that does not really yellow, but it's common for blues to tend green with time or top coat.

Whatever you chose you may want to test the entire finish through to the top coat to make sure it all works together.

[Trevor Davies]

I also like the blue, but purple is also great! They would all look amazing,

FWIW, I normally stuff the f holes with kitchen paper!

[Drashkum]

I probably like the blue best. One thing to consider is that colors sometimes fade, and sometime yellow a bit, the latter largely depending on the clear coat. I feel funny saying it since I have tried red on a couple of builds, including the one in my avatar, but red stain can easily become pink if you can't get it dark enough, or brown if UV sensitive (lots of Gibsons) or because of yellowing or time. My blues have been OK, I think mainly because I use a water based top coat that does not really yellow, but it's common for blues to tend green with time or top coat.

Whatever you chose you may want to test the entire finish through to the top coat to make sure it all works together.

I already have a couple of blue guitars. I am inching more towards purple or pink. I just got a mail from the fountain pen ink company saying these are water based dyes.

Since this is my first time I want to clearly know the steps
1. Slightly sand the guitar with 320 grit
2. Stain the guitar
3. Do I have to apply some sort of a sealer before finish?
4. What kind of finish would go well with such a waterbased dye? Should I buy a water based finish? Or solvent based?. Also I don't have a spray gun/ Not dingo tone is shippable internationally. I can get truoil here. Also Clear PU 1k are available here. Spray rattle cans of clearcoat are available






I can also get minwax or watco wipe on poly here but these are very expensive.

So wanted to know a clear idea before I begin. So that i can stick these things and get on when the body and neck comes

Sorry if these are very too noobie/ basic questions.

Drashkum

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[Trevor Davies]

Hi Drashkum,

I'm definitely not an expert on different finishes. What I have learnt from this forum is that there are lots of different ways to get a nice finish on guitars, and most folks have their favorite way! Whether it is wipe-on, spray-on, rattle can, with poly, acrylic, enamel, oils, tru-oil, polish, nitro, 1K or 2K(!), shellac etc.

It needs to be hard wearing - so most wood furniture, bench top, door trim finishes should be fine. +Water resistant. +Non yellowing!!

There should not be compatibility issues with the stain and final coats. Just ensure that the stain is completely dry before clear coats are added. But best to test on a scrap of wood just in case as suggested by Fender3x.

Most people on this forum advocate sanding up to 180g - over this apparently the wood is polished and may not take up the stain evenly!

I do not use a sealer, but I have read that some folks use a sanding sealer before adding stain. I think it helps to get a smoother surface, which means, less final coats may be needed! Not sure on this one!

Most of my guitars have been finished with Tru-oil over all types of stains and inks, one (with a blue stain) with a wipe on poly, a couple spray painted ones finished with acrylic clear. For me, I like the "zen" time of wiping on layers of tru-oil! I have not had any issues of applying it in cold, hot, or damp conditions. But I did enjoy spraying rattle can acrylic as I only needed about 5 coats!

[fender3x]

There are folks who are really good at finishing here. I am not one of them ;-). At the moment I have one successful stain under my belt, and I was not sure until near the end that it was going to complete it as planned.

I try to read as much about the product I am using. I also try to use products that are environmentally friendly, mainly because they all cure in my garage/studio/office, and I often apply the finish here as well.

I have some experience with water based dye stain. YMMV...I used a different stain and a different wood, but some of the principles should be the same...

One thing I would do for sure is raise the grain before applying anything. Get the surface a little damp. This will make the grain "stand up" so that you can sand it down. May not be much of an issue with a maple veneer and basswood back and sides, but I'd still do it.

The trick to staining is to get it even and not blotchy. If you stain before grain filling and/or sealing you run the risk of blotches. If you seal or fill first, you run the risk that the color will not be as deep. If you have a scrap of maple or basswood, I would try it both ways to see what works for you.

With the General Finishes stain that I used I followed the mfg's suggestion and put it on first. Because I was using an open grained wood, I added 1:10 some of their water based clear coat to help avoid blotchiness. I am guessing that you will like the results better if it goes on first, but this is really worth testing.

I put a coat of de-waxed shellac between stain and whatever comes next. I got this from McCreed. It makes a great sealer. While all shellac will yellow the finish a bit, platina is almost clear, and won't change the color much. Since I use a water based top coat, I need the shellac between the stain and the clear. Without it, the water in the clear can react with the stain and pull it out, particularly if it is wiped or brushed on.

It's less likely that an oil or solvent based clear will react with the stain, particularly if it is sprayed, but I have no experience with this, and haven't found a rattle can clear that I like. I can say from experience, though that oil based clear tends to get a deeper and darker yellow over time. I love this on a maple neck.

Hope others with more experience will chime in.

[fender3x]

Oh! On sanding...

I got some useful tips from the General Finishes website, in particular re. the 180 vs 220 conundrum. They suggest going no lower than 180 grit with open grain woods, and 220 with closed grain woods (like yours). They also suggest a higher grit on endgrain. I am not sure you have any endgrain on your kit, but I have gone as high at 320 on porous endgrain.

[Drashkum]

The Replacement kit has reached me. I am Pained to say that I am terribly disappointed with the kit that has been sent and the care they have shown to send the missing fret crowning file from original order despite me giving them multiple reminders. This kit was for replacement and they should have taken care not to conceal any information from me.

The kit they have sent me is nothing less than a body that was probably returned earlier and that has had a shabby repair job done already. The centre block of this too is very small and because of this the is a gaping hole on one side of the humbucker cavity. The top has not been glued properly with centre block and there are gaping holes everywhere.



It also looks like the stud hole for Tunomatic bridge had the same problem as previous kit and they have stuck a Piece of wood and glued it and that too unsatisfactorily that there is a split open gap right at the centre of the stud hole as the wood has not been opposed and glued properly.




This repair job of the guitar was not conveyed to me and shown anywhere in the photo that they sent to me prior to shipping. They have chosen to conveniently hide it in the photos that they sent to me prior as if they are sending me a top notch kit.

Added to that the fret crowning file which they said has been added is missing again. It looks like they have stuck a small paper envelope on top of the guitar box and enclosed the fret crowning file conveniently as they forgot to put it inside the box. And it's missing. And they thought the envelope would stay put with the fret crowning file with all the handling between the airlines in international transit.







They chest beat themselves that they ship internationally. But even a novice would know that putting the fret crowning file in a paper envelope and sticking in top of the box when there is a lot of space inside the box is a disaster waiting to happen.


I am terribly disappointed with what they have done. I am not going to fight with them again. And I have to make do of what I have with me now.

I wish this never happens to any other guitar kit builder here






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[Trevor Davies]

"I am terribly disappointed with what they have done. I am not going to fight with them again. And I have to make do of what I have with me now."

I would be disappointed too!

I would go back to the first kit and either:

place some wood inside to patch the tail stop post hole as suggested by Fender3x on post 39,

or buy a trapeze and plug the post holes.

FWIW - I would also buy a top quality fret crowning file, like a Hosco. They will do a much better job!

Use the new kit (and I would complain!) to practice your staining. You may be able to work on it and get a decent guitar.

[fender3x]

Wow, that REALLY is disappointing.

I agree with everything TD said in his post.

The problem with the ES bodies is that the center block is too narrow. I don't think there is any getting around that. You are not the first to have a problem. I have had this problem twice with two ES bodies from two different suppliers. This interacts with another problem that is somewhat unique to the semi hollow and hollow body guitars: they cannot be made as completely on CNC machines as solid bodies. Some of the cutting and layup has to be done by hand. Layup by hand requires a bit of a margin for error. The super narrow center block doesn't provide any margin for error. This is somewhat inexcusable to me. Paulownia wood, which is what the center block is made of, is very cheap. So why the f*$% someone does not think to make it a centimeter wider is a mystery to me.

I had hoped you would be lucky, and that PB would have been a bit more careful with what they sent. Sorry that it didn't work out that way.

So having had this problem with my first PB build, you may be wondering why I would get a second one... The answer is that they do have some advantages. Principally they are very light and relatively cheap. My back appreciates the lightness. And I am a cheapskate. But I digress...

You can still get a very nice, great playing and sounding instrument out of this. It will be lighter than any Gibson or Fender, and it will be totally unique.

There are at least two things that I would do with the original body. On both sides of the center block, I would glue a small block of wood right next to the bridge posts. Any kind of wood is probably fine. It doesn't need a lot of lateral strength, but it's also not worth risking a break through.

I would also not use the stop tailpiece that came with the kit, even with a piece of wood glued next to it. You want the tailpiece posts to be really solid so that they do not pull out or spin. On my bass build, when the post broke free it spun, canted laterally and made it impossible to adjust.

If you feel you must have a stop tailpiece, I would use something like this:



It is only 71mm wide so could be mounted solidly in the center block.

My preferred option, though, would be to get a trapeze tailpiece like this one:



I have a trapeze on an old Fender Coronado, and another on my ES4-B Pitbull bass. In both cases they work great. You never have to worry about pull out with a trapeze, and I can't really tell any difference in resonance or sustain.

By taking some careful measurements, and using the adjustment nuts you should be able to position the trapeze in such a way that the bar at the top hides the holes. The one in the pic costs $20. There are a lot of them around for guitars, so you should be able to find one that covers your holes.

Patching the holes is not difficult. Years back DingoBass had a thread about how to do it on this forum. If you are staining, the only thing you really need to be careful of is that you don't sand too hard when leveling the maple plug you put in the holes to patch them. If you can't find Dingobass's thread here's how I did mine:

https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...?t=5339&page=4

Just as a FWIW, I also modded/made my bass's tailpiece. I used a cheap trapeze tailpiece, a precision bass bridge plate and a little block of maple.

https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...?t=5339&page=5

On a guitar you could use a hard tail strat bridge plate the same way. In retrospect I would not have used maple. I'd have used something easier to cut and shape like poplar or paulownia.

Of course, you'll probably come up with some better solutions...this is just offered FWIW ;-)

[fender3x]

I have been using a Baroque gen 3 crowning file...but was surprised to learn that the Hosco is pretty close to the same price. I am a cheapscate, but I'd go for the Hosco if they are near in price.