PB-30 w/Tonerider upgrade - First PBG Kit Build!

[Route 58]

No sweat, Andy40, there’s a bunch of activity on this forum, so it’s not surprising if not every question gets addressed. If we had been more lost on it we would have put our hand up again for assistance, but thanks for the PM offer.

As a related question, I’ve seen some people refer to using Timbermate or other filler before staining. Is that a good thing, especially for end grains, to avoid the ‘straws’ sucking up the colour?

I saw another forum or video where a user suggested pre-dampening those likely problem areas with a slightly wet cloth before adding the stain.

Are either of these ideas sound?

[Simon Barden]

Timbermate should have been sanded right back before staining, so it's going to depend on the wood used for the body as to how much Timbermate will remain. It's probably going to soak up less stain than end grain will, but you may end up with a slightly blotchy light and dark pattern instead as a result, unless you leave all the grain covered in timbermate - which would look a bit odd.

Wetting the end grain first should work. If the wood is already soaked, then adding more wet stain means that much less of the stain will be sucked in by the end grain than if it were dry. But the end grain is always more likely to look darker as it's absorbed a bit more stain.

It's one reason you see sunburst finishes on Fenders and the like. If it's not a solid colour or a clear lacquered finish, then the finish tends to be a sunburst with a dark colour around the edge that hides any unevenness in stain take up around the edges (as the base colour of the sunburst is stained, not sprayed).

[Guvna19]

Looks great Route58, got some cool unique grain character there.

[Route 58]

Cheers! Thanks, Simon!
You too, Guvna!

[Route 58]

Possible problem: we applied our DingoTone intensifier, and whilst we didn’t think it was a thick coat, a week later it’s tacky, and we’ve had a reasonably warm spell so I assume it should have dried if it was a thin enough coat.
Do we just wait?

[wazkelly]

Hi Buddy, just caught up with this thread and you are doing well.

End grain on all timber bodies soaks up more than flat faces and can provide some interesting detailed grain patterns in the overall finish. Basswood typically has fairly shiny looking aspects to the faces which tend to repel stain and personally I stop sanding around 120 to 180 on the stuff to give it a better chance of soaking up some colour. Your choice of selective sanding back and re-applying stain seems to have worked in providing a more even looking colour all over.

In relation to DT, patience needs to be your best friend as it is very fickle stuff to use in hot and humid conditions. If in doubt, best to leave things to cure twice the time you would normally consider as it is so easy to lay a thicker coat than what you may have thought at the time.

Whatever you do, Never use 0000 steel wool to lightly sand back. Andy's advice of a light wet sand with 1500 W & D paper is spot on.

Cheers, Waz

[Fretworn]

Humidity also plays a part. There are no chemical drying agents in Dingotone, so be patient. It can take 2 or more weeks to dry in high humidity environments. (Like east coast Australia in the last week.)

[Route 58]

Thanks to everyone for the input.

Two questions - one intelligent, and one complete n00b effort.

First the n00b question: How do we know when a coat is dry? It might sound strange, but never having really done much woodwork in the past, I’ve also not done much finishing work. At this point it seems to us that our 2nd coat of intensifier is wet, but that’s because it’s still a bit tacky to the touch. Happy to give it more time (remembering that we accidentally put a little thicker coat than we should have), but there’s no point waiting for it to dry if it’s already dry and we’re assuming that tackiness means it’s still curing.

Second, more intelligent question: which instructions and advice do we listen to? I’d be interested to get the feedback from some other new builders, but our experience watching the videos, reading the forums and reading the recently made instruction book has been enlightening and confusing at the same time. For instance, I could point to about three or four conflicting sets of instructions on grits for sanding bodies. Sanding bodies is by no means the only example where there’s numerous instructions on what to do, even sometimes by the same people (it would seem possibly because of a few years between posts or videos, and maybe because kits changed, stains changed, or other valid reasons).

I bring this up because the the instructions that come with DT Intensifier specifically says to lightly rub with 0000 steel wool, but then above we have this advice:

Whatever you do, Never use 0000 steel wool to lightly sand back. Andy's advice of a light wet sand with 1500 W & D paper is spot on.

Now, given that this is written in bold I’m inclined to believe it, but it’s hard to know which bits of info to take on board and which bits to reject.

[Route 58]

I should clarify that my second question isn’t a complaint. We appreciate all advice - we just aren’t always certain what to do when we’ve got it.

[wazkelly]

Hi buddy, my 1st and 2nd builds were the only attempts with using DT and it all ended in tears every time I lightly sanded back with the dreaded 0000 steel wool (you can check the build diaries shown in my signature).

Whether the intensifier/stain coat layers were too thick or still green remains a mystery but watching the surface roll up into little balls of goop was shattering for a relatively n00bie at the time.

Only way to recover from the disaster was wet sanding, and unfortunately I had to go at it pretty hard to remove the damage done by using 0000 steel wool thus stripping most layers and lots of colour too.

Steel wool also leaves very, very small particles behind that easily turn up in the next layer of finish applied. Only way to get them out of all the nooks and crannies is by using a magnet swept across everything. The stuff is also bad news for pickups and best never used anywhere near them. The only job I reluctantly use steel wool for is polishing frets before installing a neck.

Andy loves using DT and seems to have best results out of any forum member so worth checking out some of his build threads for ideas and inspiration.

Cheers, Waz

Edit: If unsure DT coat has cured, best to give it a bit more time. The stuff cannot be hurried.