Christodav's TL-1AR first build

[Andy40]

Hey Chris,

That misson beach look killer man.

As Waz said, DingoWax for the fretboard is our choice.

I don't think i'd be all to concerned about the parts of the body where the stain is a bit lighter. (at the moment)

You've still got a number of coats to go. One thing you will find is, once the wood is saturated with the stain coats, the intensifying coats kinda sit on top and make a "semi gloss" type effect. It goes a long way to evening out any parts where the stain takes.

oh and hey....we all mock up the guitar a million times while we are waiting for stuff to cure

[christodav]

Thanks Andy,

It's so hot and dry in Melb right now which means perfect weather for curing the stain.

So, sit and ponder time.

I've probably done the wrong thing by rushing, but I've now managed an intensifying coat on the top of the body. (The sides and rear are in a sanded back state right now - a failed staining experience. Once I get the hang of the top, I'll move ahead with them.)
During the staining process, the look has changed from a 3 tone traditional sunburst to basically a burnt orange burst. This was due to too many coats and failed attempts. However, it really looks nice, but I have found it difficult to photograph it correctly, even with my Canon 7D - so a photo will have to wait until it dries a bit.

Now, because I have found out all the mistakes I have made so far, I might list them and offer some solutions/advice. Some of these mistakes I found out the hard way myself and others, people on this forum informed me either before or after the fact. LOL

I chose the Alder body because it is a lighter timber and I wanted a light instrument for my Daughter. Firstly, listen to what everyone says - Alder does not need Timbermate. In actual fact, if you go ahead with it like i did, it makes things very difficult for you as the grain is so fine that the DT stain has trouble penetrating unless you sand to 240grit at the most. I actually think 220 or even 180 would be okay if you want to stain Alder. Which brings me to my next mistake.

I sanded to 320grit, however in many places trying to sand out the Timbermate or sanding the cuts I made, I sanded too hard making those spots polished. This made for places in the body where the stain just wouldn't/couldn't penetrate. I may have got away with this by making my burst finish kinda 'rustic' looking. Through the black edges, the timber grain and knots show through.

Right from the beginning, even though I had watched lots of videos and read heaps on how to stain, I just didn't get it, especially when it came to blending colours. I got it now. Just like Andy and others, there are techniques - you have to develop a feel for it. I have never stained anything in my life up until now apart from the odd shirt or two at the dinner table.

So there it is. The next part of the journey is the intensifying coats and final coats. I'm kinda prepared for that now that I have finished the neck and done one intensifying coat on the top of the body.

Cheers

Chris

[FrankenWashie]

Thanks Andy,

It's so hot and dry in Melb right now which means perfect weather for curing the stain.

So, sit and ponder time.

I've probably done the wrong thing by rushing, but I've now managed an intensifying coat on the top of the body. (The sides and rear are in a sanded back state right now - a failed staining experience. Once I get the hang of the top, I'll move ahead with them.)
During the staining process, the look has changed from a 3 tone traditional sunburst to basically a burnt orange burst. This was due to too many coats and failed attempts. However, it really looks nice, but I have found it difficult to photograph it correctly, even with my Canon 7D - so a photo will have to wait until it dries a bit.

Now, because I have found out all the mistakes I have made so far, I might list them and offer some solutions/advice. Some of these mistakes I found out the hard way myself and others, people on this forum informed me either before or after the fact. LOL

I chose the Alder body because it is a lighter timber and I wanted a light instrument for my Daughter. Firstly, listen to what everyone says - Alder does not need Timbermate. In actual fact, if you go ahead with it like i did, it makes things very difficult for you as the grain is so fine that the DT stain has trouble penetrating unless you sand to 240grit at the most. I actually think 220 or even 180 would be okay if you want to stain Alder. Which brings me to my next mistake.

I sanded to 320grit, however in many places trying to sand out the Timbermate or sanding the cuts I made, I sanded too hard making those spots polished. This made for places in the body where the stain just wouldn't/couldn't penetrate. I may have got away with this by making my burst finish kinda 'rustic' looking. Through the black edges, the timber grain and knots show through.

Right from the beginning, even though I had watched lots of videos and read heaps on how to stain, I just didn't get it, especially when it came to blending colours. I got it now. Just like Andy and others, there are techniques - you have to develop a feel for it. I have never stained anything in my life up until now apart from the odd shirt or two at the dinner table.

So there it is. The next part of the journey is the intensifying coats and final coats. I'm kinda prepared for that now that I have finished the neck and done one intensifying coat on the top of the body.

Cheers

Chris

Dude , that what it's all about. Until you get going and are doing the work you don't know how it will all go. Good on you for posting that self analysis as well. Someone reading that experience and in a similar situation will get a lot from it and hopefully not hit the same snags.

Good luck with the progress, look forward to your updates!

[wazkelly]

Hi buddy, having done 4 builds none of the finishes on them have turned out exactly as I had planned them in my head. The closest is my Red J Bass but I didn't count on the grainy wave pattern to remain and am actually grateful that I stumbled upon that and reckon is one of the guitar's best features. Also, thanks for the heads up regarding timber mate & Alder as that is what I had in mind on my next build and will closely inspect the grain before deciding whether to pop the grain or not.

These builds seem to be more about the journey and where the inherent character of the chosen timber and colour scheme may take us. Most of the time we end up at a good destination, even if it was not quite what we had in mind. Hopes this makes sense and provide you with encouragement to soldier on and not beat yourself up about some of the setbacks that we all encounter with kit building.

[Simon Barden]

The woods I know about that don't normally require grain filler (because they have a closed pore structure), are spruce, alder, cypress, cedar, cherry, maple and most of the ebonies.

Ash, rosewood mahogany and walnut are open pore hardwoods and really need grain filling if you don't want to apply an awful lot of finish coats to achieve a smooth surface.

Of course even the closed pore woods may need some grain filling in patches to fill in dips or rough edges where fibres have broken away. The end grain on maple veneer tops is quite prone to splintering and some filling around the edges where it meets the binding is often required.

[christodav]

Okay Dingotone experts, what now?

I have applied a second coat of the intensifier on the top. (last night, so these pictures are at about 16 hours after application and at about 25deg C temp.) I applied this coat pretty thinly, so I think it's pretty dry on the surface right now. I don't really think that it will change much from here on in, but I could be wrong? The previous coat of intensifier was applied only 3 days before, but the body was let to dry in 30 deg C + conditions.
(Please ignore the black on the sides as it has only had the stain coat applied so far.)
I am actually pleased with the finish i have right now and I am ready to call it a day as it were. As you can see, I do have a relatively rough surface. It's a combination of dust and intensifier in the coat and probably a bit of dust on top. I don't think that it's as bad as some of Andy's early coats, but it's there all the same.
Where do I go from here?
Obviously, I am going to leave it alone to dry for at least a week. The weather will cool down a bit over the next few days and I'm back to work this week. Do I risk another intensifying coat with just a wipe and go to the final coats? Do I simply go to the final coats after a wipe clean? Do I sand it back with 2000grit wet and then try the final coats? Or do I wet sand 2000grit, another intensifying coat and then wet sand and then final coats? I really don't know what to do? LOL
So just to make it clear, I am pleased with the colour of it right now and if it wasn't for the slight bumpiness, I would be happy to start on final coats once this dries. I am not going to start on the final coats until I have intensified the black on the sides and finish staining the back.
Please help LOL

Chris

[wokkaboy]

Hey Chris looking great. I would darken up your edges and finish the back. See how the burst transition looks maybe one more intensifier but that's up to you. After all that has fully cured a light rub with 2000 grit, wipe clean and start your final coats. If you can give it bit over a week for the last intensifier coats to cure the better. You will find the Dingotone darkens a little as it cures.
Best of luck it's coming along nicely !

[FrankenWashie]

I like it, its got a dirty sort of organic feel to it. Not a factory perfect replicated ad infinitum burst job, but (to me anyway) it looks that the guitar has had 10,00 ciggies rested around its edge while being played in a bar or something.
Either that or it has been soaked edge inwards in ink or oil, or played and handled by dirty hands in a sharecroppers barn or some such in a old school blues session. I really like it mate, you're going great!

[christodav]

I like it, its got a dirty sort of organic feel to it. Not a factory perfect replicated ad infinitum burst job, but (to me anyway) it looks that the guitar has had 10,00 ciggies rested around its edge while being played in a bar or something.
Either that or it has been soaked edge inwards in ink or oil, or played and handled by dirty hands in a sharecroppers barn or some such in a old school blues session. I really like it mate, you're going great!

Thanks mate!

I find it amazing how it changes after every coat and kinda evolves. It sounds kinda wanky I guess, but it does seem to just have it's own mind and the timber pops where it wants to pop and it makes you work with it not the other way around. The black edges on the front are the way they are due to the way I sanded the body after applying the Timbermate. In a lot of areas I over sanded which prevented the stain to penetrate. That's where the 'burnt' look is coming from. I chose not fight it and just go with the way it wanted to.
I think I'll follow your advice Wokka and do one more intensifying coat on the front, mainly for insurance before the final sanding and the series of final coats. I'll start the next stain on the back soon and I'll post a progress picture of that next. In the next few days, I'll do an intensifying coat on the sides.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Chris

[ILRGuitars]

Looking great Chris. It's all a learning process with a lot of enjoyment, doubt, frustration and satisfaction along the way. But she's coming along beautifully, she's going to look like a classic by the time your finished.