Intonation and scale length issues on a Telecaster build

[wazkelly]

Thanks Ponch, just a bit of light reading I will take to work tomorrow to read in a spare moment when not so tired as it will not make much sense at this time of the day.

[wazkelly]

Hi Scott, You are right in that the neck measured 323mm from nut to 12th fret crown therefore it should be closer to 646mm at high E saddle not 651mm and will revisit things earlier tomorrow evening after work.

Took some close up shots with a steel ruler along the side of the neck to show the measurements and posted them above for you to have a look at and add your comments.

Beginning to wonder whether nut was cut in about 1mm too far north, ie. towards the headstock and if that might be the main reason things sound out of whack?

[WeirdBits]

The fret spacings and nut position look close enough, so the bridge/saddle position is probably the cause. Can you get the high E saddle wound in as far as 646mm, and/or will it not intonate around there?

[dingobass]

Sorry I missed this one.
Yep, deffo the bridge. Common problem with the three saddle Tele bridge system.
Another issue is the rear pup cavities are often 5-6mm too far back which makes intonation a challenge.

[wazkelly]

Sorry I missed this one.
Yep, deffo the bridge. Common problem with the three saddle Tele bridge system.
Another issue is the rear pup cavities are often 5-6mm too far back which makes intonation a challenge.

Ran the numbers through the Stewmac Fret calculator for a 21 fret initially using 648mm as that is closest to 25.5" and that is where I thought neck measurements were out by 1mm around 12th fret so went back and plugged in 646mm and the calculated measurements now line up more closely to those on this Telecaster neck. The confusing part is at the bottom of the calculator you have this....


Bridge placement for 646.000mm scale length
Distance indicated is from the fretboard edge of the nut to center of forward-most mounting screw or pivot post.

Telecaster® style bridges

652.333mm (± 0.5mm) ........and this final number is pretty damn close to what I have on the high E?

Re-checked the intonation across all 6 strings and it is a compromise at best to get somewhere near the fretted 12th note. Arrggghhhh, so frustrating and as the 6 saddle replacement arrived in today's mail proceeded to install it to see if that would do the trick.


Slightly shorter base plate length but thankfully long enough to hide screw holes from previous one.

Started intonating high E at exactly 646mm and had to screw plenty south to remove the sharpness on fretted 12th note and ended up at about 649mm with all others staggered backwards a little bit further from there.

May have solved one problem but now have a couple more to deal with as the bridge PUP no longer makes noise and suspect it may be shorting on the copper shielding or a wire came loose. Also had to wind the saddles up really high to take out fret buzzing and now some of the strings are buzzing against the protruding ends of the saddle intonation screws. Neck is dead flat and maybe I need to shim the front edge a bit, add some front bow, or take a bit of meat out of the neck pocket to drop the altitude down closer to sea level?

This one may just end up on the wall. The missus has given the all clear as she reckons it is the prettiest of the bunch built. Damn shame as the PUP's and 4 way switch sounded so good before I became obsessed with the rotten intonation sounding out of tune.

Got Thursday as RDO and will attack it again then. Happy for any more comments, suggestions, inspiration or feedback.

[wazkelly]

Hi Waz. Just saw this post. Although I am not the droid you are looking for.

It looks like the total scale length (around the 651mm mark is quite long?

My TLA-1R had a total scale length of 626mm after putting in the wilkinson bridge and putting in the longer intonation screws (PGB standard) and winding them all the way forward. I have a lot of latitude to tune the intonation with the longer screws. when i did the mock build, I thought it would be harder to intonate with the vintage 3 saddles but I had no problems.

Hey Andy, ran 626mm through the Stewmac Fret Calculator and that is just about spot on for 24.75" being standard Gibson scale length, not Fender Strat or Telecaster at 25.5" and wondered if those measurements are correct on your TLA-1R?

[dingobass]

The Stewmac bridge placement measurement only works properly with bridges that Stewmac sell, in my experience....

[Andy40]

Hey Andy, ran 626mm through the Stewmac Fret Calculator and that is just about spot on for 24.75" being standard Gibson scale length, not Fender Strat or Telecaster at 25.5" and wondered if those measurements are correct on your TLA-1R?

Hey Waz,

Soz its been a while since I looked into the measurements of my tele. I did a complete build before i started the finish and it played great. I think i meant 646mm but I got an extra 2 cm of adjustment using the longer PBG saddle screws. They're all about as long as your new high e from Real tone!. I had a quick look on my build diary but didn't spend too much time properly looking. Sorry I can't check because I pulled it apart again to lay down some more of that DT finish coat

Its all coming flooding back now, Like DB said the original bridge position was about 5mm too long, so I too had to move it slightly toward the neck...but not too much...as the wilkinson ashtray is also shorter... but just enough to cover the pre drilled PBG holes. I also used the longer PBG saddle screws to help get the right scale length. Phew! I whittled some oak dowel to cover the pre-drilled holes as well. not sure if thats an option for you at this stage?

[wazkelly]

Thanks DB & Andy. I will probably revert back to the original 3 saddle and from the 6 saddle version I have some good reference points for where each string was intonated on it's own to help with the compromise on shared post positions.

State of Origin about to start so I had better crack a beer and start chanting QUEENSLANDER!!!!!

[Andy40]

QUUUUEEEEENNNSSLLLAAAAANNDDEERRRR!!!

Blues don't stand a chance!!!