Looking for new water based clear coat...Bad experience with General Finishes

[fender3x]

I am having a bad experience with General Finishes. Hoping it's an anomaly, but fearing that it may not be and not willing to "throw good money after bad."

I have been using General Finishes High Performance top coat on all my builds. However a few days ago I noticed that there was a problem one of my necks. I had noticed that there was some greening around the fret ends in a few places but did not think much of it. However, in this case it seemed to have "bubled up" a bit so that I could feel a bump. I scratched it with a fingernail and some of the finish came away on the back of the neck. It seemed...at least in that strip, to have gotten softer. This is on a neck that I have been playing regularly for a couple of years. I have some greening on one other maple neck, but, at least for now, the finish seems hard.

It is looking like I have one, maybe two or three, neck re-finishes in my future. So I tried to consult with General Finishes to find out what gives. They don't take calls or emails, but do all customer support through a Facebook page called "General Finishes University." What they told me there is that their top coat does "breaks down" from contact with "hand oils," that they only recommend it for "fine wood furniture" and that the greening is probably from the water contacting the metal.

In point of fact, they actively promote the use of their top coat for use in guitar and instrument finishing on their website, and responded very favorably when I asked them about this before I ever used it. But that is water-based poly under the bridge. (Just kidding, although I am tempted to throw out the rest of my GF top coat off a bridge, I won't. They may have been lying about it's environmental friendliness too for all I know.)

The most important question is what to do now? I know folks there have successfully used Cabot's water based poly, but although some Cabot's products are sold in the US, that does not seem to be one of them.

So here are the options I have been able to ID that I should be able to get:

Crystalac Brite Tone
Crimson Guitars Water Based Wipe on Guitar Finishing Lacquer
Anthem Instrument Finish Top Coat
StewMac ColorTone Wipe On Poly
ICRO 5000
Deft Interior Exterior Water-based Polyurethane

Has anyone used any of these? I have used Crystalac once before...and it seemed OK. It seems to be one of the more common ones used on YouTube. I have seen Anthem used on YT also.

I like the idea of trying to do it as wipe on rather than brush on which is what I have done up to now. While I used Crystalac with a brush, I have seen it used wipe on on YT. ColorTone and Crimson also say specifically that they can be wiped on.

Deft is probably the only one that I can get without ordering it on-line. I know it has been used on guitars, but will need to do a bit more research. I have also heard that there are people who use the ICRO products, but it's new to me.

Will welcome any thoughts or suggestions. I work in a garage, and am married to an environmental engineer who does not want me bringing toxic products in the house. It's dicey to work outside here due to humidity and heat. That has driven a lot of my finishing choices...and will likely continue to do so for better or worse B-)

[fender3x]

Narrowed things down a bit. I think I am looking at these primarily:

Crystalac Brite Tone (lacquer/poly)
Aquacoat Clear Lacquer (lacquer/acrylic)
Anthem Instrument Finish Top Coat (lacquer/poly)

Leading the pack is Crystalac Brite Tone Instrument Finish. It's been reviewed quite a bit, and there is YT video of it being wiped on, brushed on and sprayed. It also seems to combine nicely with some of their other products, and they sell shellac on their website so that's a good sign. I have used it a bit with no major issues. I don't know that I love it, but it's at least the most known quantity of the ones I am looking at.

Aquacoat is still in the running. Would be grateful for any opinions on the relative advantages of an acrylic lacquer as opposed to a poly. It has been used for guitars, but the only reviews I have seen are on their website. Not sure this is a disadvantage, but AquaCoat's grain filler, which I use and really like, is SO popular that all the reviews I can find using the search term "Aquacoat" tend to be about the grain filler. If the lacquer is as good as the grain filler then it should be great, but I'd like to know more. It's also about 1/3 less in price than Crystalac Brite Tone. I'd gladly spend more if I knew that one was distinctly better than the other. And again I really like their grain filler...

I have not eliminated the Anthem product, but probably will. It's by far the most expensive. I have seen just one review of it, and then nary a mention of it anywhere else. I think there may be just one guy up in Canada who is keeping the company in business. Again, I'd be willing to spring for it if there were a clear advantage, but at $50 for a pint...I'd like to know more before I do.

Would be grateful for any thoughts about these. Particularly interested in whether there are opinions about the relative virtues of acrylic lacquer vs poly.


Meanwhile, I think I have pretty much eliminated these:

Crimson Guitars Water Based Wipe on Guitar Finishing Lacquer
StewMac ColorTone Wipe On Poly
ICRO 5000
Deft Interior Exterior Water-based Polyurethane

It seems to me that that you can make a wipe on of the non-wipe-on by either either by adding a little water or adding their retardant, so I am inclined to eliminate the "wipe ons"

I have also seen some complaints about the ColorTone poly being too thin and drying too fast.

Strangely, given the prominence of Crimson Guitars on the web, there is virtually nothing about their water based wipe on Guitar Finishing Lacquer. It's a melamine lacquer, which seems to have some nice characteristics, but it looks like the only place I can get it is through Crimson Guitars, and even they have not used it in a vid that I could fine. So, casting no aspersions but doesn't seem readily available. Too bad since it's about the cheapest option...at least if you live in the UK.

I can't find anything on ICRO 5000. Someone recommended it who does not like the GF finish that failed me...but I can't find a reference to it being used on a guitar.

I did find out a little about Deft. I have heard that it has been used on guitars, but the mfg says it does not play nicely with zinc (one of the metals alloyed in fretwire, bridges, etc), nor with shellac. So it's out.

[Trevor Davies]

Ohh no, this is terrible news. I have not heard of this happening before.

I do like the idea of being able to brush, wipe or spray a finish. But I'm no help with any of these!

[phrozin]

I don't like water base clears fender 100's of brands out their especially in the USA some are great and some are crap, I prefer a isocyanate HS Clear that made by an Aussie manufacture I always use the same 1 have been using on bodies for 8 years now, i use a plasticizer in it so it remains flexible I did try a cheaper brand but got so many problems with it pealing off the base. I get really good shine off the gun, after doing as many as I've done if it ain't broke don't fix it, i still use lacquer clear but not very often as 2k is just so much better in every way but i get that from my time in the automotive trade

[fender3x]

Thanks Phrozin, I get the advantages of the 2K approaches and to spraying. Would love to do it, but my climate is not really conducive to doing the work outside, and I have decided it's not worth divorce to bring it inside, so I am kind of stuck.

I am at the moment going back and forth between acrylic lacquers (AquaCoat lacquer, Target EM6000) or poly (Crystalac Brite Tone). Brite Tone and EM6000 seem the most common used with guitars.

You are definitely right that there are a LOT of clears here in the US, but there don't seem to be a lot of reviews, particularly on guitars. When I do see reviews, they often indicate that the product is seriously flawed.

I sort of like the idea of the acrylic lacquers because they are supposed to burn in rather than just layer, but there are more (favorable) reviews from more different sources that I have found on Crystalac which is a poly.

So, I keep looking for more reviews...