Sung Il bass bridges and hardware

I had not ever heard of Sung-Il, and came across them accidentally as I was looking for a 2-point replacement bridge for a bass project. Sung-Il makes a number of products I *had* heard of, however, for Floyd Rose, TonePros and Wilkinson in Korea. They also make a bunch of their own hardware.

I have given up on the stock three point bass bridge that came with my ESB-4 kit. DB had nothing nice to say about these...but I thought they looked cool. Until the second time I tried to make one work on a semi-hollow bass kit. I am now committed to taking DB's advice and see how far I can get it to skip on a nearby lake.

On that former ESB-4 bass I put a fairly standard Gibson-esque two point tune-o-matic--which just barely fit.

This time I decided to try a bridge I had purchased for that project but never used: a Sung Il BB-100 "tune-o-matic" two point bridge:

Attachment 30428

I did not install it before because it is a bit too wide for an ESB-4 center-block. I ran into a similar problem on my current project. I had to move the bridge location a bit from where was...and the center block was no longer wide enough to accommodate. So, I did a little surgery...and it fit!

Attachment 30429

So first caveat is that this bridge it TOO WIDE for the standard center-block on a Pitbull ESB-4 kit. It might make a nice alternative to the three-point on a solid body, however, particularly if you combine it with it's matching tailpiece...

Attachment 30430

...however, the tailpiece is massive. Much bigger and wider than a standard Gibson stop tailpiece. There is no accounting for taste...but for mine this tailpiece is a bit too large.

The bridge, however, is very nice on its own. more massive than a standard Gibson-ish tune-o-matic. As you can see, I used it string-through. I think it could also be used with a trapeze. You could even use it with a smaller Gibson-style or Warwick stop-tailpiece. However, even the smallest two-point stop tailpieces are too wide for the ESB-4 center block without some modding. On a solid body any of the above would work.

This bridge is WAY more adjustable than a standard tune-o-matic. The saddles have quite a bit of travel. As with most 2-point bridges it is only adjustable for height at the ends. The saddles do not adjust individually for height. However, the ends are easier and smoother to adjust than most 2-point bridges I have tried. One cool feature is that once you get the bass intonated, the saddles lock into place with an allen-key set screw so they cannot move. Once the end-pins have been adjusted for height, the TB-100 end pins are also locked into place with a allen-key set screw. As a result, even though this is a two point bridge it feels very solid, and does not rattle or move at all, even with the strings off, once all the set screws have been locked down.

It should work in place of a 3-point any of the PB solid body kits that use a three-point bridge if you get them un-drilled, an don't mind doing a little drilling. It's not taller than at stock 3-point, and it's easier to adjust. It might take some shimming to get it to fit on a fender-style bass. It looks a bit taller than a standard F-style bridge. Ironically the F style basses come undrilled but the three pointers would have to be ordered that way. that said, I'd go to the trouble in place of a 3-point. Especially with the massive BT-100 tailpice, this is way more solid than the OEM 3-points.

You can get a drop-in replacement for a Gibby 3-point from Hipshot or Babicz. Both have great reputations, but they will set you back 3-4 times what the Sung-Il will cost. At US$ 33, it's a bargain--and that includes the tailpiece. The finish is as good as any piece of chromed hardware I have ever had. Everything works smoothly. The workmanship and finish are great. It is by far the best and most solid two point bass bridge I have ever seen. Based on this experience, I am tempted to try a couple of their other products....

I am not really unhappy with the stamped bridge on my Fender basses...but I admit that I like the look of the high-mass Badass-ish bridges that come on some of the new ones. There is a Sung-il like that...as well as one that appears to have a saddle-lock screw like G&L and some Schechters have... If the quality is similar these may be worth checking out.

Now that I have mine installed and intonated I have a couple of more observations.

It is very easy to adjust this bridge. You take off the cap that covers the top the height adjustment screw to adjust the height. Once you have the height where you want you replace the cap and lock it down with an allen screw. This is super solid. The bridge will not move once it's locked down.

The saddles have lots of travel, more than on any other two-point bridge I've ever seen. The saddles move very smoothly. They're also easy to adjust, in part because the adjustment screw is off to one side of the string rather than directly under it. This makes it easy to slip the Allen key between the strings to make the adjustments. When you have the string length set the way you want it, lock the saddle down with the Allen key and it won't budge.

Overall I continue to be really impressed by this bridge. Attachment 32611Attachment 32612Attachment 32613

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Interesting... I don't rave over the Hipshot bridge installation on my ESB. The thing that disturbs me is that the bridge is not parallel to the strings, so intonation adjustment will affect string height and I bet setting up is going to be a royal pain. I can see in that respect a two point type is better as the posts can be set up to be ~ 90 degrees to the strings rather than the body surface.

The post holes will undoubtedly still be drilled at right-angles to the top of the body at that location (otherwise the top of the post inserts wouldn't lie flat), so even with the T-O-M style bridge, intonation will still affect string height and string height will affect intonation. You'd actually need the bridge to be leaning slightly forwards so that it's at right angles to the line of the neck to minimise any interaction.

However, it's still pretty easy to set these bridges up correctly.

That's an interesting issue. This bridge, like most T-O-M brifges, does not have an individual saddle height adjustment, so there is no compensating for height except at the ends of the bridge.

On mine, I did not notice a change when I intonated. That might be because my guess about where to put the saddles was close, so I didn't need to move them much to get it intonated.

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It's never going to be a great amount of movement. You can worry too much about small things that really don't have that much effect. ever changed a saddle position by quite a lot with no appreciable change in intonation? When you're fighting against weird stuff like that happening, maybe a 0.3 mm shift in height/intonation position isn't that important. It would be lovely if the 12th fret pitch of a string smoothly went up or down proportionally as the saddle moves, but empirical testing shows that it doesn't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

It's never going to be a great amount of movement. You can worry too much about small things that really don't have that much effect. ever changed a saddle position by quite a lot with no appreciable change in intonation? When you're fighting against weird stuff like that happening, maybe a 0.3 mm shift in height/intonation position isn't that important. It would be lovely if the 12th fret pitch of a string smoothly went up or down proportionally as the saddle moves, but empirical testing shows that it doesn't.

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That pretty well jibes with my experience. I have seen some pretty funny string length settings, especially on used bases.

It's probably worth doing a little comparison here... The Sung Il is WAY better than the stock three point bridge that came with my kit. Also better than an actual Gibson three point.

I found it just plain easier to drill two holes than three on a curved surface. Also since easier to adjust hight with two screws rather than three.

Intonation has more travel on a Babicz or Hipshot, but the Sung Il has a lot of travel for a two point T-O-M. there is, however no height adjustment on the individual saddles. That's also true of the Gibson and Babicz. The does have adjustment at the individual saddles. The Sung Il radius appears to be 9.5, which is the same as the neck I am using, so not really an issue for me but something to consider if you are using a different radius.

The biggest problem for a curved surface bass like an ES with the Hipshot or Babicz is one that JimC and Simon know well...they were designed for installation on a flat surface...so you have to find a solution for that. I wrote to Babcz and Hipshot to find out if they have any suggestions for how to install on a curved surface. Let me summarized their response: they said "no." The good part is the Babicz and Hipshot should fit the pre-drilled holes on an ES...or at least fit the center block. It's hard to find a two point that fits the kit centerblock...but my travails on that topic are elsewhere on the forum ;-)

I have seen lengthy threads (mostly elsewhere) on the merits of one bridge over another for improving sustain on a bass. IMHO they are generally focus on the wrong things. Probably the most important is that bass doesn't generally need that much sustain. A lot of right hand techniques, and sometimes foam blocks (see James Jamerson or Carol Kaye) are devoted to dampening sustain. The other spurious argument is that mass will increase sustain.

But if you want sustain...

I have experimented a bit with this, and have found only one thing that produces an audible increase in sustain: locking the saddles so that they can't move. Leo Fender achieved this most simply on his G&L "saddle lock" bridge, which uses a grub screw to lock the saddles in place. I could get almost the same effect on a P-bass by using a 3" C-clamp to lock the saddles together. Not very attractive but it produced a small but audible improvement in sustain. Hipshots, Babicz and KSM all acheive the same effect by locking down the saddles individually with small bolt. The G&L will cost you $80. The other three are closer to $120 (all USD).

On my next build, however, given how well I like the Sung Il on my hybrid bass, I am thinking I'll try a Sung Il BB 404:

Attachment 34640

These are available for around $20 USD, and have been OEM on a number of basses--including some from Carvin (remember Carvin?) and Yamaha. For 20 beans they seem worth a shot. Of course $20 is about 5x more than a C-clamp, but these are also shiny ;-)

I've heard of Carvin, but they were fairly rare outside of the US.

That Sung Il bridge looks nice, but just check the string spacing is suitable, as 19mm between strings is quite a wide spacing. It got me looking at the 5-string version as a replacement for the one on my '80s Peavey 5-string bass, but that has 16.5mm string spacing (and I thought that was pretty wide!). I can't go any wider on that without the strings falling off the fretboard.

The current one is similar to this economy Allparts one, but with a smaller string spacing https://www.allparts.uk.com/products...ng-bass-bridge
It's not bad, but it could be better and I was hoping that a more substantial bridge might help improve the low B string's output.

I was actually looking for 19mm spacing, which I think is pretty standard on Fender-style 4 strings. Both my Precision and my Frankenjazz have that spacing. My hybrid with the Sung-Il two point bridge has 18mm spacing, and I don't feel a lot of difference. That said, one of the reasons I don't have a 5 string is that the string spacing always seems too close to me. Fat fingers I guess.

Carvin guitars are no more, but they had a great rep here. Didn't know they did not market outside the USA. Maybe that's why they went out of business. I do have a Carvin Amp that is my favorite. Great value for the buck.

Sung-Il seem to make a range of bridges that go from 20mm to 16mm string spacing, although not all have the lock down feature.

I am also intrigued by the BB007 and BB008

Attachment 34664

...these appear to have a grub screw like the G&L saddle locks and are also about $20 US. There are a bunch of 5 string bridges, but most of the ones I saw on their website that had lock-down saddles were for string-through basses. You might take a look to see if anything appeals. I saw some UK sites that seem to carry them.

Not the most beautiful website in the world...

http://www.sung-il.com/

Mixed messages on that BB008. "string spacing 17mm" on the title whilst the dimensions diagram states 16mm!

Thanks, I'll have a look.

Dimensions on the BB008 look exactly like my current bridge, even down to the fixing hole centres and locations. Now to find one!

Except I now realise that the picture and the dimension drawing are completely different. Find another bridge time.

It looks like they used the dimensions for this bridge instead of the 008.

Attachment 34685

I have seen the 4 string bridges available in the UK. Not the whole range. I think the catalog I am looking at is sent to OEM mfgs. It's a really bad website, and there are no sales to the public on it.

They seem to have 5ers in string thru with lock down and in a broad range of widths. In the non-string through versions they seem to have just the two--the BB008 with the wrong dimensions, and the BB405 with the 19mm stirng width.

They do seem to have some non-saddle-locking bridges for 5ers, including the one that matches your dimensions as well as a few others. If it were me, I'd get the locking if it's available, but if not, I wouldn't worry about it. I have never had too little sustain on my bass that I can remember. Too much on open strings maybe....

I'm rather dubious about string-though 5-string bridges. For such a thick string,that bottom B has needs a very tight turn radius in order for it to sit on the saddle properly. I can find lots of interesting bridges, but all with 17mm or 19mm spacing, not 16mm.

First choice so far is a Hipshot one with adjustable spacing, but that doesn't have any lock-down feature, which would be nice.

I don't think the string trough makes much difference sound-wise. My experiments suggest that locking does improve sustain a little but it's pretty subtle.

My Sung Il BB404 arrived today, and I am as impressed by it so far as I was with it's TOM sibling that lives on my hybrid.

Attachment 36979

As I posted earlier, I am not a great fan of high-mass bridges, but if you want one... this weighs in 243g which is over a half pound. That is heavier than a Badass, a Fender High Mass or a Babicz. String spacing is 19mm. I checked this against my mid-1970's Precision and my FrankenJazz basses, and it is identical. The Hipshot A-style is a little heavier at 260g, and will adjust string width.

I am not convinced that mass adds much more than weight to a bass, but I do think that you get a tiny bit more sustain from a bridge that locks the saddles in place, as the G&L, KSM and Babicz do. The Sung Il also locks the saddles. The Hipshot A-style does not, but I am not sure about other hipshots for F style basses. The Fender and the Badass definitely do not lock the saddles.

The Sung Il has a low profile, and quite a bit of adjustment, both vertically and for intonation. Some high mass bridges seem to require shimming the neck or routing the bodybecause they are higher than Fender stamped bridge plate. That should't be a problem with this bridge.

The finish is superb. Really nicely chromed. It also comes in black and gold.

I will be putting it on a paulownia body. These are notoriously soft, and my one worry with the bridge is whether the screws may pull out. On the positive side, this bridge is made to accommodate both string on top and string through. I plan not to do string through, but it is nice to have it as an option of I do get pull out problems.

I want to build a light bass, but the paulownia is almost too light, weighing in at around 1220g. So a high mass bridge should help prevent neck dive. I am hopeful at least. For the same reason, however, I would not put this on my Frankenjazz which weights in at 4390g with a fender style stamped brigde--already pretty heavy.

My one beef is that the four mounting screws are too small, so they will be getting replaced with screws that are a bit longer.

I overpaid for my Sung Il at just over USD $25 with shipping. That is still a tremendous bargain compared to any other name-brand locking bridge I have found. I have seen them on eBay for as little as USD $18 with shipping.

I'll report back with anything I learn in the installation, particularly if it negatively affects my outlook, but for now this seems like a great bridge for the money.

Timely for me - I'm looking at aftermarket options for a 5 string Jazz build.

I have a mix of various bridges on the 5 basses I own and I really like the one on my Sandberg which is essentially the same as what you have bought. They are a great in terms of adjustment/setup. I'd go with one for this 5er for sure. I assume there are various sellers for them.

Cheers

They have a very similar bridge for 5 strings,

http://www.sung-il.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=b071_05

...but as Simon noted earlier the string spacing is 19mm, which may be pretty wide for a 5er. They have two others that for sure are locking BB285 and BB265. Narrower, but also string-through. They also have one that looks like it has a grub screw for locking on the side, BB008 that is string-on-top and 17mm spacing, but I can't promise it's locking. Then, over course, they have a bunch of 5ers that don't lock, some of which are high mass.

The website is horrible, perhaps because they primarily market to manufacturers rather than individuals. I have seen their products sold in a lot of places. I got my first one on eBay. I got my second one on AliExpress, and thought I might grow old and die before it arrived. I have found them on a number of other websites as well. You can also sometimes find them using "Wilkinson" as a key word...because apparently Sung Il also builds some hardware for Wilkinson...

I found a bridge that I have never heard of on a UK website that looks strikingly like the Sung Il BB404 that I have. They are not identical in the pics. I like the fact that the "Grainger" does not have the set screws that match the color of the bridge (unlike the Sung Il). There are some cosmetic differences...but overall the two bridges raise the question of who is copying whom?

https://www.btnmusic.co.uk/product/g...idge-4-string/

The Grainger is about 5 times as expensive as the Sung Il (even in the UK)...but there is the issue of fine, British craftsmanship. It says it's "Designed AND Manufactured in the UK!"

https://graingerguitarparts.com/

The Sung Il products I have gotten have been quite good with regard to finish, fit and heft. That said, I had to re-tap one of the saddles because the intonation screw got stuck. Easy enough to fix, but a QC issue nonetheless.

Meanwhile when I checked out the Grainger website, they seem to make an aluminum bridge in this same style. That's something I might well be interested in to shave off a few oz... The Graingers say they are made of either solid brass or solid aluminum, whereas the Sung Il's are made of...some sort of relatively heavy metal.

Haven't seen ANY Grainger products in real life, so this is purely FWIW

I would gave bought a Grainger for my HB JB build, but the string spacing was wrong for me. But I did get my Hipshot bridge from BTN. A lot of my Hipshot kit has come from them. Always had good service and when I got a duff tuner with a very stiff section, they immediately just sent me a replacement without having to send the original back, which arrived the next day.

I must say that the Grainger certainly looks machined whilst the Sung Il looks cast. One may have certainly inspired the other.

I can attest that the Sung Il is cast. The Grainger website says it's milled on a CNC machine. It looks like about as good an option as I have seen in an alu locking bridge, and certainly competitively priced with the Hipshot...which is the only other alu locking bridge I can think of. Of course, I haven't seen one for sale by a US seller, which undercuts price-competitiveness for me at least....