Commercial Quality Control

While waiting for the better half to finish some shopping I went to fog up the windows of one of the local guitar places.

They recently got a large shipment of Fenders in. This is a ~$2900 MIA Telecaster in the window. Either the neck or the bridge is crooked. The high 'e' string is barely over the fret board past the 14th fret. Hard to get a good pic through the window, but the strings are clearly off centre.

Not that cool on such an expensive guitar.

https://i.imgur.com/ORjbnVyl.jpg

I've seen a few other things on Reddit recently, anyone else got some horror stories?

Yep, One I've mentioned before.

I bought this MIM Stratocaster Deluxe through a reputable Aussie retailer via their website. As it was not in stock they back ordered it, and when it came in they did as most retailers do and immediately shipped it out to me without checking the contents. Fender Australia did offer to correct the problem under warranty however as it was a gift from my wife I politely declined.

Even though it took me nearly 30 minutes to notice the problem opening factory sealed boxes since has never been so exciting ...

I ordered a new artist series Jeff Beck Strat, took 6 weeks to arrive. Fender Australia generally inspect incoming guitar before forwarding to their dealers. Mine was damaged and returned to the States, ANOTHER 6 weeks for a second :-)
A year later I ordered a 65 Reissue Jazzmaster, guess what, yep, arrived damaged, this time they didn't return. They had a new body with mismatched numbers sent over and rebuilt it and told me it was a different guitar. When I figured out the neck and body didn't match they for some time refused to supply a letter to authenticate it as a factory supplied guitar. Eventually after enough NOISE they did produce a letter.
From Fender Australia I ordered a Gretsch D6131T-62 with a $1,000 deposit. When it arrived they refused to hand it over until it did the rounds of a trade show. I refused to accept a demonstration guitar and imported one from the States $500 cheaper to my door and 2 weeks quicker than they were going to give it to my dealer :-(
Fender Australia sux!

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Originally Posted by cork sniffer

I ordered a new artist series Jeff Beck Strat, took 6 weeks to arrive. Fender Australia generally inspect incoming guitar before forwarding to their dealers. Mine was damaged and returned to the States, ANOTHER 6 weeks for a second :-)
A year later I ordered a 65 Reissue Jazzmaster, guess what, yep, arrived damaged, this time they didn't return. They had a new body with mismatched numbers sent over and rebuilt it and told me it was a different guitar. When I figured out the neck and body didn't match they for some time refused to supply a letter to authenticate it as a factory supplied guitar. Eventually after enough NOISE they did produce a letter.
From Fender Australia I ordered a Gretsch D6131T-62 with a $1,000 deposit. When it arrived they refused to hand it over until it did the rounds of a trade show. I refused to accept a demonstration guitar and imported one from the States $500 cheaper to my door and 2 weeks quicker than they were going to give it to my dealer :-(
Fender Australia sux!

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I think you deserve a special 'Glutton-for-punishment' award.

cheers, Mark.

Insane prices for such poor quality and complete disregard for basic customer service. Explains why I have mostly purchased 2nd hand brand name instruments as they come warts & all which is to be expected after several years use and abuse. The only moderately expensive ones I have bought new through a store that were OK is Yamaha. No matter where in the world they make them their QC seems to be the same high standard and they run rings around most Fenders I have held in my hands. Soundwise is where the real deal may have a slight edge but nothing a set of upgrade PUP's can't fix.

The last new guitar I bought was a Shergold in 1976, everyone who has played it wants first refusal if I ever decide to sell.

As one guy said, some guitars say play me, others say just try to play me.

The Shergold was built by hand by craftsmen and it plays like butter

Well said Dave.

Guitars are a bit like cars where the older established brands are relying too much on their past reputation, just like Toyota, where newer brands from other parts of the world are producing much better products.

Having looked at the GOTM builds recently ( since I've been on the forum ) and I suspect that the quality of the vast majority of our builds exceed those of the big brands

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Originally Posted by king casey

I think you deserve a special 'Glutton-for-punishment' award.

cheers, Mark.

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In accepting the award I'd like to thank Fender Australia for ongoing disregard towards those who pay the bills. I also thank the US Postal System who in conjunction with Aust Post now deliver directly to my door.

Sadly, this sort of thing is almost accepted as "usual practice' by people these days; piss poor performance followed by endless hassles getting the wrongs righted - it just ain't right! :-(

My last new guitar was a Matsumoku built Vantage VA900 bought in 1980 - never regretted it, and have now amassed a small collection of used Matsumoku guitars! You know, even the absolutely munted ones I bought to restore were still solid enough to pretty much just nail back together again!!

Well, I can cite the too-tight nut slots on my 2018 Gibson LP Classic, along with the fact that they now seem to be using pots with 18 spline shafts but fitting their standard knobs designed for 24-spline shafts, so they don't fit properly.

My mate Max had such a poor new Ibanez with so many faults (e.g. overly-rolled fretboard/fret edges where the E strings were on the angled part of the fret making it unplayable and big neck pocket gaps) that he sent it back and then complained loudly to a mate of his who's the Ibanez UK sales manager. This tied in with the sale's chaps thoughts of general poor quality control from the factory, so Max got invited to the UK headquarters for a weekend to review three other guitars pulled at random from stock and he rejected all of them. That was a few months ago so hopefully (as there was a manager over from Japan there) their quality should be improving. He did get given a £2k guitar for doing it (which luckily had only minor set-up issues that Max would have corrected anyway regardless).

As an American, I hate to see what has happened to the storied musical instrument companies. They have become literally perverse. Leo Fender's company should not be confused with FMIC. The Gibson of Orville Gibson, Les Paul and Lloyd Loar should not be confused with Gibson Brands, Inc.

I have always thought that Leo Fender's genius was in making a pretty good guitar or bass easy to manufacture and cool to look at. Fenders were tough, easy to set up, cool, comfortable and affordable for the working musician. I like the idea that these are quintessentially American.

FMIC, by contrast, takes essentially the same product and creates a range from the super expensive (but still cheap to make) to building it's own cheap and crappy knockoffs. Made from "custom shops" of dubious location and distinction somewhere in the USA to the sweatiest of sweatshops in Asia and God-knows-where-else.

And Gibson Brands? Watch for Gibson cologne, and Gibson essential oils.

These are shadows of what were truly inventive places that catered to musicians and people who wanted to be musicians.

I just hate the idea that the new American ideal seems to be to come up with a product that is just interesting and innovative enough so that it becomes a "brand" that you can sell off to the highest bidder. Look at PRS working to become a jr. FMIC. I working in a university, and even here you can hear more about the importance of "branding" than "education" or "research."

This has made me virtually anti-brand of all kinds. I am sure there are some brands that still connote quality, but it feels to me like it is just a giant con game to get you to stop believing what your hands, eyes and ears tell you.

By FMIC do you mean made in China? Cause the one that I started this thread with is a Made in America professional series - which is why I was so taken aback by the error. On an Indonesian Squire or something I wouldn't be surprised, but this is up there with the flag ship models.

This same store I went into to buy a Les Paul - I played almost all of them and the Epiphone variants and they were all worse to play than my crappy 30 year old Korean Washburn. Plus there was issues with the binding and various other small bits of fit and finish that I wasn't happy with. It was really disappointing after wanting one for so long. I ended up buying a Hagstom for about 2/3 of the price as it had been on the floor a while and it's just lovely. The difference in the overall craftsmanship was night and day. I also played a Yamaha Revstar and was really impressed with its playability and finish, it almost came down to a coin toss, but I went with the Hag as it seemed to have more personality or 'X' factor for me. I'd pick up a second hand Revstar in an instant if the right one came along though.

Here's one that was posted on Reddit a little while ago Jaguar American Pro - check out the control plate fitment. No excuse for that IMO, just lack of care during assembly. And actually looking at this the high 'E' looks pretty precarious as well... might be the angle.

https://i.redd.it/vtj1vzgm82201.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sonic Mountain

By FMIC do you mean made in China?

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Fender Musical Instrument Corporation

I think the west is suffering from a lack of pride in their work by employees. Bosses make it quite clear people can be replaced, in return, workers do just enough to ensure they don't get sacked and nothing more. In the east people are proud of their job and the company they work for , or are determined to work their way up from the shop floor. As Adam will testify the western view of the dirt floored dimly lit factory in China is about 30yrs out of date. Most factories have better premises and machinery than American brands and better staff retension ( therefore higher skilled)

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Originally Posted by dave.king1

Fender Musical Instrument Corporation

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Oh right. Still learning all the abbreviations.....

hmmmmmmm
Attachment 28457

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Originally Posted by Dedman

I think the west is suffering from a lack of pride in their work by employees. Bosses make it quite clear people can be replaced, in return, workers do just enough to ensure they don't get sacked and nothing more. In the east people are proud of their job and the company they work for , or are determined to work their way up from the shop floor. As Adam will testify the western view of the dirt floored dimly lit factory in China is about 30yrs out of date. Most factories have better premises and machinery than American brands and better staff retension ( therefore higher skilled)

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I agree but think it's world wide. Though I will admit that the best hardware quality I have found has consistently been Korean

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Dedman

hmmmmmmm
Attachment 28457

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Got to be photoshop or a p155 take surely

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Originally Posted by Marcel

Yep, One I've mentioned before.

I bought this MIM Stratocaster Deluxe through a reputable Aussie retailer via their website. As it was not in stock they back ordered it, and when it came in they did as most retailers do and immediately shipped it out to me without checking the contents. Fender Australia did offer to correct the problem under warranty however as it was a gift from my wife I politely declined.

Even though it took me nearly 30 minutes to notice the problem opening factory sealed boxes since has never been so exciting ...

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Best looking telecaster I have ever seen. ☺

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Originally Posted by Sonic Mountain

Oh right. Still learning all the abbreviations.....

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I think of it as the Fender Musical Industrial Complex

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

I have bought two instruments new, a 1989 Korean strat which was hand picked from a huge stack of new ones still in boxes by a very accomplished guitarist friend, and my 1994 musician stingray. They are both made wonderfully, so I have no complaints. Having spent an hour or two in a couple of excellent local guitar shops recently, for the first time in years, I do, however, agree with the comments that the quality of instrument you can construct here from Pitbull will give many of these brand name instruments a run for their money.

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Originally Posted by Andyxlh

I do, however, agree with the comments that the quality of instrument you can construct here from Pitbull will give many of these brand name instruments a run for their money.

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You only have to look at the standards in the GOTM threads to see just how good they can be, some would give the top shelf stuff a nasty fright

Just spent the afternoon in the local guitar shop, it might be worth checking out the latest offerings from ibanez, the finishes on the top of the line instruments, around then$1000-3000 mark, are amazing. The translucent finishes over knotted timber bodies and transparent clearcoat 'binding' are great.
Lots of fantastic ideas to appropriate!

As I said in my post, Ibanez have been guilty of a lot of terrible QC issues recently, so don't assume that because it looks pretty, all is right with the guitar. Check for over-rolled frets, badly skewed necks and big neck pocket gaps. My mate also mentioned issues with some of the trem set-ups (I think one was quite skewed). Not saying they are all going to be like this, but really try thoroughly before you buy and put on your 100% objective glasses.

Treat them like a blind person would.....how does it feel and sound.....then you can open your eyes and check the finer details. Unfortunately headstock logo or brand name should be the last consideration these days.

I did have a warranty encounter with Gibson over my 2016 '50's tribute LP. The 3 way toggle switch had become intermittent after only 6 months of use. There was some discussion via email and rather than send the guitar to Melbourne (a 2000km each way trip) for service they agreed to send me a replacement switch that I would install myself. In doing so I agreed that further warranty on that part of the electronics would no longer be upheld but they agreed that all other warranties would remain intact.

A few days latter a Gibson packaged Switchcraft pickup toggle switch arrived in the mail, which I subsequently installed without drama. Been fine ever since... I think Gibson got out of that one pretty cheap...

now you guys are scaring me i just ordered a Steve Vai Signature Jem ibanez 2 days ago i have given up on a fender and gibson (and i love strats)there guitars are not what they use to be dropping that much money on 1 of there guitars and getting a dog is all to easy these days and i cant afford to waste my cash, but doesnt stop at guitars marshall and fender and line 6 new range of modeling amps are rubbish i can get a better tone by plugging my lead in my cats bum squeezing his guts

I have gone with blackstar and ibanez lately whos id range are very impressive amps and my blackstar ht5 valve mini stack which i love with the way of the world of buying online and not physically able to try 1st is easy to get a bit of high prices rubbish, most of the music stores in adelaide don't have wheelchair access so i don't have a choice so i buy from pbg and build my own that way i get just what i want

I'd have thought the Jem was rather heavy for you Phroz? My mate Max with the bad back had to give up his beloved Jem and switch to S-series models because they are nearly half the weight. I must say that my RG is a very heavy guitar.

Funnily enough, my genuine 2013 Gibson USA Les Paul Studio has at least one issue which I think is due to less than good quality control, the high e-string seems to be closer to the edge of the fretboard than the low e-string, note this is an instrument that I paid Au$2000.00 for.



Attachment 28790



I tried to aim the camera as close to 90 degrees to the centreline of the neck as I possibly could, it's possible that either the neck was glued-on slightly crooked, or it is being pulled sideways by the string-tension, or the bridge mounting-stud holes are a bit off-centre.

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

As I said in my post, Ibanez have been guilty of a lot of terrible QC issues recently, so don't assume that because it looks pretty, all is right with the guitar. Check for over-rolled frets, badly skewed necks and big neck pocket gaps. My mate also mentioned issues with some of the trem set-ups (I think one was quite skewed). Not saying they are all going to be like this, but really try thoroughly before you buy and put on your 100% objective glasses.

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i actully purchased a new ibanez iron label last week my god was covered in black stuff a big hunk taken out of it a huge score down the back luckly i got it from a guitar place on ebay, i emailed them with pic's the same day it arrived they didn't even bother to answer the email after a week i got on to ebay, 6 hours after i did the guitar place rung me today with how sorry they were (yeah right) so ebay emailed me later today after reading the email and pic's i sent the guitar place with return post paid lable to send it back and refund my $2k back to me,

Not all guitar places do dodgy stuff like that on Ebay a few weeks ago i purchased a new Ibanez steve vai jem (the white one) and it was perfect, i guess being in a chair i cant even get in the front door at guitar places in Adelaide so i either haft to arrange for home delivery which you cant try before i buy or i buy a lot of my gear on Ebay ill give a shout out to belfield music in NSW who are great i purchased a Marshall DSL20 head on monday night and was here today all boxed like it should. If ever you buy anything on Ebay pay with paypal and you wont get ripped off

I'll just play the devils advocate here and while agree there is no excuse for obvious flaws, having been in online and real world retail literally since I was born I'll just say that people can expect an awful lot from a mass produced item. When I was selling high end pocket knives I'd get guys wanting to return a knife because the blade was off centre by .02mm, yes it was a $500 pocket knife, yes it was also produced in a factory that had an expected quota of finished items for the staff to produce daily. I think that what happens is people see custom made very high end items online, gear that has taken a single craftsman weeks to produce, then expect the same level of fit and finish in a mass produced item. You get what you pay for for, if you want perfection be prepared to pay a luthier or custom shop prices. I have only bought 2 new guitars, a Korean Gretsch and a Japanese Fender neither is 100% perfect but for the prices I'm amazed at the quality. So yea, there will always be those Monday morning or Friday afternoon guitars that slip through QC with a fault but a realistic expectation of what you are going to get for your money goes a long way.


My biggest gripe with Ebay sellers is the old click bait/up-sell ploy. They advertise an amp or guitar for a good price, then after you buy it they message that their stock count was wrong and they don't actually have one, but can offer $20 off a higher priced item. Some will also say it might take a week to process your refund. Don't fall for it, demand the refund immediately or you'll report them to both Ebay and consumer affairs. I've had this done to me twice with big online stores and my nephew had it done to him by one of the same stores, so it's obviously their standard mode of operation.

edited to say I once had a guy send me a photo he had taken with a MICROSCOPE of the tip on a knife blade showing it had minuscule scratches and demanding a refund because it was "faulty".

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Originally Posted by Dedman

edited to say I once had a guy send me a photo he had taken with a MICROSCOPE of the tip on a knife blade showing it had minuscule scratches and demanding a refund because it was "faulty".

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Urgh, what a d**k. I've known people like that, and I'm certain they woke up looking for something to complain about. One lady in particular made my life a nightmare, but I think she was using it almost like a procrastination tool - like if there were all these issues in her life then she couldn't possibly get on with the job