Raven's first build - JMA-1

I am only in the initial sanding stage so nothing really to show yet. Love the Ash and will be going with some form of natural finish - perhaps something akin to what the body looks like when wiped down with a wet rag (i.e. "If you've got it, flaunt it"). I do have some questions:

1. Seem to have the remnants of what looks like an orange fluro pen mark on the back of the body that goes a long way into the timber. Sanding hasn't removed it. What can I use that won't have any permanent side effects - would methylated spirits work and not leave a residue that might impact a subsequent DingoTone finish ?

2. There are some deep pock marks on the body horns from the cutter/router. I have sanded a long way removing most marks but some go quite deep and I don't really want to take that much timber off. Is there any effective way to fill these without creating something that will either fall out or absorb stain to a noticeably different degree ?

3. I was originally going with Nullarbor Ochre DT but from the few pics I've seen on the forum I was beginning to wonder if Colourless DT would be the better option to get something akin to the wetted timber look, not mask the tonal variation of the grain, and to go better with the red scratch plate. Any comments on this ?

Hi Raven,
no idea why a fluro marker is on the back of the body. Being ash you need to use a grain filler - Timbermate is a good one. For maximum popping of the ash grain I use the darkest grain filler - ebony.
I think nullarbor ochre will look good will give you a darker look than natural. Or you could ask DB to mix you a weaker version maybe. Clear DT may not give you a dark enough look.
I would fill the pock marks in the horns. See if filling the fluro marker helps. Can you please post a pic of both these concerns you have ?

Great to see another JM build happening. Metho might be worth a shot, it evaporates quickly so I doubt it would affect the wood. Keep water well away from it, I learnt that the hard way :)

Pics would be great, don't worry about them being boring, its all interesting to us and you never know what will be picked up by the hive mind here.

FWIW I had a lot of marks and dings on mine and there was a lot of filing to refine the guitar body and get rid of the machining marks. Well worth the effort, just keep an eye on the curves and radius's so that the lines all flow into each other and it will look great.

Hi Wokkaboy,
Can you please outline what the story is with the ebony grain filler (i.e where applied, how applied etc.) or point me to something that will reveal this pearl of wisdom.

Hi Sonic Mountain,
I tried metho - gave me a strange buzz :-) but had no impact on the orange mark on the guitar body. Not sure about your comment about water.

Attached are some pics taken after "final" sanding. The orange stripe is half way between spring cavity and the body waist. I applied the wet finger test to get an idea of how apparent the stripe would be under a natural finish.

Hi Raven, Timber Mate seems to be rather stiff in the container and may need a small amount of water added to create a slurry, thicker is better than thin and runny as this stuff can be really, really messy. Best to dig a bit out into a plastic container and then get to work on getting the correct consistency. To apply, an old credit card works best as a scraping tool to spread the slurry all over. Once done leave at least overnight and then take the whole job outside to sand off the excess. Best to wear a dust mask as the residue is quite small and goes everywhere. It also has a plasticky smell too.

Check out my Red J Bass in the signature below as that may give a few more clues.

Cheers, Waz

Pure acetone may help with the orange, but wear gloves and appropriate safety gear. I've used it to remove Dingotone and other stains before. Can we get some more photos of the stain, and any before shots? It's odd.

Okay, tried Acetone and that did not remove the orange tinge but did make it look more like it was due to excess glue than marker pen because it was right next to a join and there was some slightly sticky residue left. Think this means the DT Nullarbor Ochre will be the primary finishing option since it seems to hide most underlying colours. (I did an experiment on a piece of American White Ash where I put various light washes based on Feast Watson stains down first to highlight grain then over-coated with DT N Ochre and it seemed to mask all of the lighter washes.)

Have a new problem now !
I used a little air blow gun hooked up to a compressor to blow away all sanding dust as a prelude to applying the DingoTone only to find that some of the grain now looked much rougher because it had been previously filled with sanding dust (I had sanded up to 400 grade). Wondering if I have to go down the filler path (Timbermate etc), or whether the DT 3 coat system will fill the grain either as-is or after another light sand to replace the previous filling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven

Okay, tried Acetone and that did not remove the orange tinge but did make it look more like it was due to excess glue than marker pen because it was right next to a join and there was some slightly sticky residue left. Think this means the DT Nullarbor Ochre will be the primary finishing option since it seems to hide most underlying colours. (I did an experiment on a piece of American White Ash where I put various light washes based on Feast Watson stains down first to highlight grain then over-coated with DT N Ochre and it seemed to mask all of the lighter washes.)

Have a new problem now !
I used a little air blow gun hooked up to a compressor to blow away all sanding dust as a prelude to applying the DingoTone only to find that some of the grain now looked much rougher because it had been previously filled with sanding dust (I had sanded up to 400 grade). Wondering if I have to go down the filler path (Timbermate etc), or whether the DT 3 coat system will fill the grain either as-is or after another light sand to replace the previous filling.

---

Hi Raven, Ash tends to work best with some grain filler otherwise you may end up with grain contour lines in the top coats. Still a good looking effect but if chasing a dipped in glass look better to do some grain filling first.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Hi Wazkelly,
Any suggestions on best TimberMate colour to match the natural Ash grain colouring ?
(Further to your earlier/previous suggestion I tried some Ebony Timber Mate on a sample piece of Ash timber and found it yielded a blue-black tinge. This might have been okay under a tinted finish but I'm now looking to use DT Nullarbor Ochre - pale red-brown with satin finish.)Attachment 22977Attachment 22978

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven

Hi Wazkelly,
Any suggestions on best TimberMate colour to match the natural Ash grain colouring ?
(Further to your earlier/previous suggestion I tried some Ebony Timber Mate on a sample piece of Ash timber and found it yielded a blue-black tinge. This might have been okay under a tinted finish but I'm now looking to use DT Nullarbor Ochre - pale red-brown with satin finish.)

---

Hi Raven, suggest looking on http://www.timbermate.com.au/product...od+Filler.aspx
This provides a rough colour chart that could be useful.
It all depends on how pronounced you want the grain to be under the final stain colour. A lot of people use Ebony as that highlights the grain in an almost black shade and can look quite good if the dark contrast works. Not so good if dark stain on dark filler.
Another thought is to use Natural TM and add some of the stain colour when mixing down into a slurry as that will then grain fill in the same shade but may hide any sexy grain patterns.
An idea i was considering for a future build was natural or white under a dark stain to achieve a reverse grain pop or zebra effect. A bit like a black & white photo negative look.
Plenty of possibilities and comes down to how much you want to highlight the grain.
Cheers, Waz

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Following advice I used Timber Mate filler. Tried Ebony, Jarrah and ultimately Hardwood/Tas Oak. Found that Ebony and Jarrah tinted the surrounding wood, although I later found that DT Nullarbor Ochre obscured the Jarrah colouring. Shots after sanding the filler:
Attachment 23074 Attachment 23075

Applied DT Nullarbor Ochre stain coat. Filler took on more colour than base timber. Generally okay but a few spots with excess filler

Attachment 23076Attachment 23077

After drying found that Nullarbor Ochre did not hide glue lines and glue residue (as I discovered earlier, what looked initially like orange marker pen line turned out to be excess glue residue which seemed to be impervious to things like acetone).
Attachment 23078

Looking for any suggestions on what to do to rectify these issues. Was thinking about using a fine artist's brush to apply either more stain or something else onto the glue lines. Not sure about how to handle the major glue residue mark on the bottom (is also on top but will be largely masked by the scratch guard.) [If I do a project like this again I would apply a really dilute wash of Black Japan to the body to highlight any and all imperfections.]
Tempted to put on another base coat to fix a few areas of low absorption but don't really want to make the body any darker, so looking for guidance on this and whether to sand first.

Also looking for any feedback on to what extent subsequent DT Enhancer and Final Coats will have in terms of hiding or blending things.

Hi Raven,

I find that where the glue is pronounced, no stain will take, no matter which stain you use.

Some of the guys use a wire brush to score the glue marks so that stain will take on kits. I personally sand around the ash join with 60 grit, then 80 grit, 180 and 240 until I cannot see the glue so much in join. I never sand lighter than 240 or the DT wil have nothing to grip. then I fill with timbermate. The timbermate will take on the stain properties (even using Dingotone) and sometimes hide the join a bit, but its an artform. darker colours are better for this.

When using the stain colours, I use about 3 - 4 stain coats and 3 - 4 intensifying coats to get a deep rich colour (but its personal preference).

It is doubtful that the stain will "hide" glue spots because the stain simply cannot grip over glue. That being said, As DT is oil based, what you will find is that once all of the stain coats have cured, (I usually give it a week in normal weather), it will have formed quite the base over the wood and the "intensifying coat" will sit over the top. It may go some ways to covering up the glue join but the problem is you have to apply the intensifying coat very thinly, if you put too much on in one go it will not look good once dry and you will have to sand it off anyway.

You should be able correct these issues with DT by spot sanding say with 80 and then 180 grit over the glue spots , then re-staining the troubled area before moving on. be careful when sanding the ash join that you don't get any major "tear out".

Thats the "long way" i would tackle the problem, but maybe others would have a different method.

Thanks Andy40.
I actually sanded down to 400 grade, partly to avoid or correct the 'tear out' you mentioned, which occurred in one spot when I first sanded with a heavier grade. (I also dampened with water to help raise grain and holes in the bottom of the concave curves for sanding purposes - not sure if this ultimately contributed to the glue line visibility problem).

Re your suggested spot fix approach, do you ultimately re-stain the whole body or can spots of new DT application be happily blended in ?

I quite like the current nutmeg colour. How much darker will multiple coats make this ?
Attachment 23080 Attachment 23081

That to me looks real nice now... I'd be putting clear coats over that

Nice work Raven, it’s looking great

Have now put 3 coats of DT Nullarbor Ochre on and think the answer to my question about how many coats to apply was 2.5 !
Here's how the body looked after coat 2 - a big improvement on consistency from 1st coat and almost good enough with only a few minor dry spots.
Attachment 23260

I let it sit for a number of days and opted to put on a 3rd coat. Has had about 4 days of warm temperature (high 20's to mid 30's) and still does not feel completely dry (compared to 1st and 2nd coat outcomes) as it still exhibits a slight tackiness. Also looks like the DT has pooled in a few places as if it didn't soak in and/or blend in on overlaps. Happy to take any feedback about how the base coat of DT behaves in a multi-layer situation and also happy to hear suggestions about how to remediate any spots where the finish has not fully blended.