My Diary - LPA-1, First time Pit bull Builder

Hi Folks!
First time Pit Bull builder here, and Im eagerly waiting my LPA-1 to be delivered (which will be tomorrow, I believe).

This will be my third guitar, but first that I've built myself - My other two are referbs (One was a REALLY sick Ibanez RG-550) and both sing like mocking birds, so I have a little bit of confidence with this kit.

The only thing that worries me a little is the set neck - I've not done a set neck before, and Im a little worried about getting it wrong. Yes, I've looked at information in the forums, but in reality, if I don't know what Im looking for, Im not entirely sure if I've even FOUND the right information.

When I have more questions I'll certainly ask them - I guess my first one is, is there any particular rules that I need to follow RE: lengths, angles, etc? There's information on the forums about this, but it's a more of a yes you can, no you can't, yes you can sort of thing - doesn't help a person if they don't know what they are looking for...

ANYWAYS - Excited to get this started. I'll have questions, as I said, but Im also excited to share my happy snaps of this, and it's two older siblings (Banzie and Eltie) as I through.

Hi depictedminds.

Welcome to the forum. great first kit. fantastic build. still love mine. Have you watched the pitbull video for setting the neck?

Its in these video guides http://www.pitbullguitars.com/videos/

Are we referring to the video that doesnt exist? Theres one there thats missing (after the screw in neck video). The one with measurement guides gave me a lot more confidence but id love to know what else they had on the missing video. ..

Hi Depictedminds, welcome!
I've done 2 set necks and had no probs. The important thing is to do a dry build with your bridge in position and tuners on the neck for both E strings, clamp the neck in place and run both E strings ( no need for tuning tension) . Check they run straight and that the break angle of the neck gives a decent action height. I had no probs with mine but careful sanding and or shimming will fix any issues. ( I don't remember too many people having problems)

I have also done a few set necks and the LP was by far the easiest.

Have a read through this post in which Gavin has collated a lot of great info that will be relevant.
http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au...ead.php?t=1895

Awesome. So feeling a lot better atm. Will do this when arrives and post progress. Thanks for the info so far!

Ok - potential silly question.

With this kit, I wanna get a bone nut for it. They have F type and G type guitars. Am I silly, or do I not know what kind of Nut Im supposed to get. Im assuming the kit I have is a G-Type guitar?

Correct. G for gibson.

Excellent. P for purchased.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by depictedminds

Excellent. P for purchased.

---

So worth it.....so much tone with the bone bro

YAYAYAYAY! It's arrived!
I'll be doing a mock build shortly, but (crappy photos aside) here's the general body before starting..
(Pictures courtesy of my wife, whilst Im at work)
Attachment 13989
Attachment 13990
Attachment 13991

Noice. Do a damp cloth wipe down on that front before you start. It'll highlight any potential glue issues and it should give you an idea how the grain will look. Plus if it sets up nice you'll give everyone the grain envies when you post the photos.
Sweet looking kit mate, what are your plans?

Ohhhh gorgeous grain on that ash.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andy40

Ohhhh gorgeous grain on that ash.

---

I know, its crazy right?! Good kit score on that one.

So I am doing my mock build (After getting into adam's ear, I was pointed in the right direction) and I've got a question about the neck angle.

After looking at the guitar for quite some time, Im wondering about this neck angle / space - Neck is tighter than a nun's credentials, but when it's in the guitar, I get about this much space between the body and the fretboard (see Image).

Before I go sanding the puppy down and smoothing the face / removing the glue spots, can someone please tell me if this is going to be an issue? Should I be doing anything particular regarding this space?

(See image)

Thanks in advance

Attachment 13997

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by depictedminds

So I am doing my mock build (After getting into adam's ear, I was pointed in the right direction) and I've got a question about the neck angle.

After looking at the guitar for quite some time, Im wondering about this neck angle / space - Neck is tighter than a nun's credentials, but when it's in the guitar, I get about this much space between the body and the fretboard (see Image).

Before I go sanding the puppy down and smoothing the face / removing the glue spots, can someone please tell me if this is going to be an issue? Should I be doing anything particular regarding this space?

(See image)

Thanks in advance

Attachment 13997

---

Doesn't look too bad, is the back end of the neck sitting flush on the bottom of the pocket?

You really need to run the e strings down it and see if every thing lines up and that your neck angle is within cooee, if those are good and your scale length is okay and you don't have a funny string break angle, then you should be good to go and that gap essentially becomes cosmetic. This is where the mock build, with neck clamped and strings run is helpful.

I don't think that little gap looks bad either, the way I see it, that gap will probably get filled up with the glue you use to glue the neck to the body anyway, the best glue to use is Titebond since it is stronger than the standard PVA Wood Glue, you can order Titebond from Dingobass.

Thanks for the awesome info so far.

So - The mockup that I've done (Pics below).

One question that I have regarding some of the suggestions to clamp the neck and run strings - Im assuming I should be right to punch the bridge / saddle pegs into the guitar before I start staining, or really even sanding? I understand that I won't be putting tuning tension on the strings or the neck, but in order to have the string run at least "straight" I'd assume I'd have some basic tension on the string, and to gauge the height of the bridge correctly would involve me putting the pegs into the guitar - is that a fair statement?

If that's the case, I'll get right into running the 1 and 6 strings and getting some alignment measurements. Honestly, Im pretty sure I should be good to go with this.

Here's some happy Mockup snaps (including slightly higher res shots of what I thougt was a slightly crazy neck angle - opinions pls):

Attachment 14001 Attachment 14002 Attachment 14003Attachment 14004 Attachment 14005

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by depictedminds

Thanks for the awesome info so far.

So - The mockup that I've done (Pics below).

One question that I have regarding some of the suggestions to clamp the neck and run strings - Im assuming I should be right to punch the bridge / saddle pegs into the guitar before I start staining, or really even sanding? I understand that I won't be putting tuning tension on the strings or the neck, but in order to have the string run at least "straight" I'd assume I'd have some basic tension on the string, and to gauge the height of the bridge correctly would involve me putting the pegs into the guitar - is that a fair statement?

If that's the case, I'll get right into running the 1 and 6 strings and getting some alignment measurements. Honestly, Im pretty sure I should be good to go with this.

Here's some happy Mockup snaps (including slightly higher res shots of what I thougt was a slightly crazy neck angle - opinions pls):

Attachment 14001 Attachment 14002 Attachment 14003Attachment 14004 Attachment 14005

---

I'd probably leave installing the bridge pegs till after you've done all the initial finishing work on the body and neck, reason for that is because you're most likely going to have to give the body and neck a sanding-down before doing the staining, and the bridge-pegs may interfere with the sanding, you can however do your mock-build to check that everything is going to fit properly, and the strings will be correctly align, you might need to drill some mounting-screw holes, which is probably best done before the finishing work so that you don't end up ruining a good finish.

The neck angle looks similar to the neck angle on my Gibson USA LP Studio.

OK! Thankyou Dr! I wanted to make sure I followed all the instructions and made sure I asked questions before going ahead and starting to dress the body or neck with any Papers.

The neck, now that it and I have made friends a little more, is at least a VERY good, tight fit into the guitar. The wood and overall feel of the neck is great - the fretboard is VERY good, and there's some minor rocking on the frets - no dramas there though, I've dressed both of my current ladies boards, and have said tools to do so on this one.

Once I get some time today, I'll put up some details on the alignment. Then it's time to get this one dressed!

Even thought the bridge is sitting about a mile in the sky, I've ran 5, 6 and 1 to see the alignment of the neck, bridge, saddles etc. etc. Alignment wise, I think it's not too bad - thoughts?

Note: The neck isn't clamped, and the bridge doesn't have it's pegs mounted as of yet - Not sure how I'd check the neck angle without really mounting the bridge, so it's firm enough to at least hang on to a string that's tensioned "Straight". The more I look at it though, the less and less Im worrying - nothing particularly untoward seems to be going on there outside of a little bit of creative filler and colouring.

Ideas, suggestions welcome - Im getting heaps of good info from you all so far!

Attachment 14006 Attachment 14007

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by depictedminds

Even thought the bridge is sitting about a mile in the sky, I've ran 5, 6 and 1 to see the alignment of the neck, bridge, saddles etc. etc. Alignment wise, I think it's not too bad - thoughts?

Note: The neck isn't clamped, and the bridge doesn't have it's pegs mounted as of yet - Not sure how I'd check the neck angle without really mounting the bridge, so it's firm enough to at least hang on to a string that's tensioned "Straight". The more I look at it though, the less and less Im worrying - nothing particularly untoward seems to be going on there outside of a little bit of creative filler and colouring.

Ideas, suggestions welcome - Im getting heaps of good info from you all so far!

Attachment 14006 Attachment 14007

---

Check to make sure that the two E strings are the same distance away from the edge of the fretboard, once they are the same you'll know that the neck is correctly aligned with respect to the body, Gibson give the following specs for the 12th fret action on their factory-built LP guitars (note that the specs are in imperial units):

Low E string 12th-fret action: 5/64ths of an inch.


High E string 12th-fret action: 3/64ths of an inch.


I'm not sure what the metric equivalents are, but if you're able to get the 12th-fret action to those specs without the bridge touching the body then the neck angle should be fine.

Thanks for everyone's guidances so far.

Ok, so Im doing pretty much everything I can think of to try and get this guitar set for sanding / finishing / gluing, and in most cases I seem to be going pretty smoothly - EXCEPT for the neck.

Now, when I put the neck into the guitar, it's nice a tight, seems to have a huge angle on it - like really big. Ok, so I have to get a decent mock build done. I get that. The thing is, I can't think of a single way to even begin to get a decent mock build of this particular part done without pushing in the posts for the bridge and the tail. I can't bring the guitar up to any kind of tension if the bridge isn't supported, I can't get a true indication of the alignment if the bridge and tail aren't supported, and I really can't see what sort of action I'll get if I can't get some at least REASONABLE tension on the strings so they at least run straight.

So I knocked the posts in. If there's another way to do that (I can't run mounting screws - there IS none on a tune-o-matic) let me know, cause I'd love to know how.

Right - so I've done that - now I can get a basic idea of what my action is going to be. From what I can tell at the moment, Im not sure it's going to be very good... I set the bridge off the guitar (raised) by about 4mm and I can get the strings to run straight at about 1.3m m off F12 (E6) and around 1.1 F12 (E1) But With no real neck tension. Buzzes like hell (as I'd reasonably expect with no tension). The bridge is raised pretty high off the neck, and Im not entirely certain Im fond of that.

For some reason, Im just not entirely comfortable with this neck angle - it seems FAR too pronounced. What Im worried about is, gluing the neck in and not doing something I should have about the angle.

Can you guys just give me some indicators on what you would believe might be the case here - Specifically:

* Am I going to expect this neck to straighten (angle) with the string tension by much? IE: By amounts that would let me lower this bridge a reasonably amount, and to ultimately get a babicz?
* I don't feel the neck is bowed whatsoever. Do you think this looks like a time where Neck Truss rod would come into play?
* Am I losing sleep over nothing? Glue is just SO permanent, and Im trying to find the "Dude, you should have done THIS BIT" before I start thinking about it (of course, my finishing comes first though)

If pictures and stuff are needed, let me know and I'll supply.

What I did was to just sit the posts for the bridge and tailpiece in the holes without the bushings in there. I was able to put a couple of tuners on for the E strings and check that the neck was in straight and the angle was ok before and when gluing the neck. You don't need a whole lot of tension to check the fit, and you can see if the bridge posts are being pulled out of the holes and adjust if needed.

With this arrangement the bridge will be as low as it will ever go (possibly a bit lower). I found the action was lower that I would need so should be ok.

One other thing to consider is that the neck may be tilting back in the body a bit if you don't have it clamped which will make the angle seem bigger than it is. I cut a block of wood that would fit between the E strings and used that to clamp so I could be sure the neck was fully in the pocket and the angle was the same as it would be when glued, then checked the action then.

I did all this on an SG but the same process should work the same for your LP.

I'm following this thread with interest for two reasons. First because every one of my current "I whould do this one next" kits have set necks and I find the process looks fairly intimidating, and second because this exact kit is the one I most have my eye on. It's helpful to read all the advice about fitting a set neck even though I'm not dealing with it yet.

Also, the top on this particular kit looks amazing and I can't wait to see how the finish works out.

Yeah - and to be honest, Im not overly panicking as of yet, cause I haven't glued anything thus far. But I am just really not happy with the angle of the neck break with this whatsoever. It seems like it's out (with a straightedge) at the saddles (raised up half) by about 15mm (IE: the bridge would need to be raised another 15mm). That's massive. Im positive I can get this fixed, but I cant tell anything whatsoever about the neck until I maybe get it to string tension. The feedback thus far has been outstanding on the forum, but every single suggestion seems to tell me the neck is out by a country mile.

Im terrified to do any sanding or anything as of yet, cause if you make a mistake you're done... But Im certain if I keep looking I might get my answers. Onwards and upwards.

If anyone has anything else they can suggest, please do - I'd love to get past the mock build stage with this...

Looking at your photo from the side up above, it definitely doesn't look like it's sitting in right.

I haven't seen an LP kit, but on my SG the neck pocket routing in the body is flat, and the neck in that photo doesn't look like it's sitting flat in the neck pocket. Mine would do the same before I clamped it.

I'd check it again without the pickups in there (you won't be able to tell if it has slipped if they are covering the hole) and clamp it on and see how it goes.

Youre right. It doesnt look like it. But it certainly is. Even when i mock clamped it its that angle. On the pickup side of the neck heel its wood on wood. All the way to the base. The angle is massivly pronounced on this neck.

Im at work atm but will get better pics shortly.
*edit* i THINK its masively pronounced. Ill leave that up to the experts.

Should i post the q to db in his corner?

Hi Depicted.

I am no expert but when i do a mock build I don't put the bushings for the saddle or the stop tail into the guitar body until the guitar body is finished to prevent damage to them. Instead you can use some plastic tubing (or a bit of rag) and wrap it around the posts and push that into the holes. That should hold for a mock build.

You can't set it up properly until after the finish anyway as you may need to modify the guitar.

Its better to not consider gluing the neck until after the neck and body are finished anyway, but its not a bad idea to check it as you have been to see if you need to modify the neck join.

Generally speaking the neck angle of the LP kits follow the upward angle of the body. Its difficult to see what you are talking about without a photo of the side of the neck join of the guitar. Here is a photo of my LP-1SS neck join.

Attachment 14036

That's what the angle should look like.

Can we have a side photo of the neck join? and maybe a photo of the neck to see if its bowed or twisted?

Im not at home at the present, but the photos that I have put up before show a little bit of the angle - I'll get better images when Im at home.

These are what I have at the moment.

(And no, mine's not at all like yours - As you can see on the gap of mine, that's how far out is is on the angle - It just feels like I'd need to raise the bridge like a crapload off the guitar just to have a baseline action)

But I'll get better images asap.

Attachment 14037

Attachment 14038

Finally got back home - Ok, here's the images of the neck set into the body, and around it's pocket.

Attachment 14039

Attachment 14040

Attachment 14041

Attachment 14042

Attachment 14043

As mentioned, neck is sitting at an angle that's insane - I don't think I'll ever have a secure bridge with an angle this much.

Hope someone can shed some light on this...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by depictedminds

Finally got back home - Ok, here's the images of the neck set into the body, and around it's pocket.



As mentioned, neck is sitting at an angle that's insane - I don't think I'll ever have a secure bridge with an angle this much.

Hope someone can shed some light on this...

---

Hi Bro, see attached photos of a Les Paul Set neck kit build. I did this last year and it set up fine and perfect and played great...But I am re finishing this guitar as we speak under Hammer of the Gods build diary..I posted the photos trying to copy yours is so you can get confidence on the neck angle....I think your problem is the neck heel needs to be planed down so the fret board sits on the body..Yours is too high but angle correct.

You need to carefully 'Lower" the neck but keep angle the same and ENSURE the heel is dead flat for maximum contact between body and heel...At least thats my 2 cents worth.But I am fairly confident it will solve the problem.Attachment 14044

Attachment 14045

Attachment 14046

Attachment 14047

Attachment 14048

RIGHT!

Everything is looking heaps better now - so ONWARDS and UPWARDS!

Sanding time - Sand Sand Sand Sand. Im not going to sand too much on the Face of the guitar, cause I need that ash for the finish Im going for...

If you're wondering what Im shooting for, Im going for the classy Black opaque face, Solid black back, and some interesting ideas for the hardware:

Blackwood or Rosewood Pickup Rings
Blackwood or Rosewood Switch plate
Solid Black headstock face, with a custom decal
natural oiled fast matt neck
No scratch plate on this one.

Im also talking to my uncle in melb, who's a master woodworker, to see what he might be able to do for me with some opal for the pickup rings. If I can get it done, then I'll go some opal on the pickup rings.

Something similar to this, but obviously a different feel on the front due to the different wood:

Attachment 14052

Im honestly not sure if the dingo tone will get me that colour - has anyone tried the black DT and have any results to show?

Hi DM,

Looks like the neck is sitting higher on the cutaway side, I remember mine did when i first got it as well because the binding was sitting high in the cutaway. if that's the reason just sand the binding down, otherwise i agree with HB.

I used DT black stump in my burst. Thats about how dark it goes on a maple neck (a can't remember how many coats). I expect it may get a bit darker on Ash but still show the grain.

Attachment 14053

headstock - nothing fancy or over the top, but I was happy with the dremel work here... slow and steady....

Attachment 14063

Headstock painting day (number 1)

This is going to be a solid black headstock face, natural wood side and back, white pinstriping on the face, with a opal decal.

So - step 1 - Face painting. After getting this smooth as a bub's backside, Super nice masking, and a blast of white. Following this will be another blast of white, and then the pinstriping begins.

Attachment 14089

By the way - thanks to everyone that helped me out with the whole neck thing - After reading over and over again, It started to become a little trivial that the neck heel was going to be a shade larger IN ALL THREE DIMENSIONS (.. duh) cause smaller would be just outrageous. It's pretty much spot on perfect now - but im not touching the body yet until my dingotone comes :D

More soon!

Pinstriped done...

Attachment 14094

Top coat done...

Attachment 14095

And striped - time to let this cure...

Attachment 14104

I'll get the tape off it in about an hours time, so I dont get too much residue on the neck...

neatly done !

YAYAY! Delivery day!

Bone nut...

Attachment 14146

Grovers!!

Attachment 14147

YAYAY!