The YB4 Build

I have ordered and will await the birth via Australia Post of the YB-4 kit. I like the idea and shape of the headstock, the body with both precision bass and jazz base pick-ups.

This will be my third bass build, first from Pit Bull, and I am looking to better my finish abilities with this one.

I have ordered a set of water based dyes from another supplier, along with some dedicated sanding sealer. I have a heap of sandpaper from the other two and I am tossing up about a finish. The other two have been finished in Tru-OIL, but this time I am thinking time to maybe try something different. I have both water based and oil based wipe-on poly from Minwax. I have both gloss and satin finishes.

I have been thinking about trying a burst on the body and then either a natural or classic (amber etc)colour on the neck. Then finishing the lot with a couple of coats of the gloss poly on the body and headstock...and the satin poly on the back of the neck.

Query, is the water based poly or the oil based poly a better finishing option for a guitar?

Ok, the order is listed as shipped....the dye and sanding sealer is also on its way. (I have ordered the full seven colour dye kit and a bottle of sanding sealer from U-Beat.)

I am lost here.....the art of prepping the body of the guitr has so many directions. I have made two basses previous to this and have sanded, stained finished with TRU-OIL. The first one...not so well....learnt things....the second is nearly done....and looks lots better.

From reading other builds, and other threads on here and the NET I have come down to this.....please advise if I should change anything:-

The body is again BASSWOOD....all three have been this.

1. Sand through the ranges from 120 to around the 300 grit sandpaper.

2. Make a mix...slurry....runny paste....of timber filler. Apply to body and rub in and then let dry.

3. Sand this with a higher grit paper....have 400...so that is cool.

4. Wet down the surface (may be redundant as the above step will wet it)....then apply ONE coat of sanding sealer.

5. Let dry and then sand through to 600 grit sandpaper ONCE and ONCE only.

6. Apply stain.....at this point I will have to make a choice on colour scheme. The young fellow here....13..wants a dragon burst....big ask for a learner. I was thinking of just plain Bright RED.

Maybe more than one coat of stain to achieve desired colour.

7. Let dry at least 24 hours.

8. This time I would like to not use TRU-OIL....not because I don't like it....want to dry a different finish.

9. I have both oil and waterbased wipe-on poly in high gloss and satin from MINWAX. The wipe-on poly if I use water-based may activate the stain again and give me an undesired result. The oil based would just go straight over.

10. The water based gives me more options....but the dye thing bothers me....have seen it suggested that I apply one coat of the sanding sealer (weak shellac) and let it completly dry. This will act as a barrier coat and then I can apply the water-based poly.

11. Coats x 3 at least. With sand in between. (The poly itself says 240 grit???? I am thinking something more towards 1000 mark myself.)

12. After last coat leave for at least 2 days and then wet sand 600,800,1200,2000.

13. Auto cut compound cream, auto polish, auto scratch remover, cleaner wax, pure carnauba wax x 4 coats.

14. DOOOOOONE. Just add string, neck and solder.

All to be done again by hand....no random orbital sanders etc here. I like the rag staining, rub on finishes....not so keen on brushes.

Any advice will be accepted. :)

Greg

sounds like you have a solid plan Greg. I've not used mini wax poly wipe on so not sure whether to use water or oil based. Generally stains/dyes you won't need to sand finer than about 320 grit, you want the surface to have some tooth for the stain to hold onto. I use fine 0000 grade steel wool to buff the body between stain coats. If you live in a cool area I'd recommend 48 hours between stain and clear coats.
Hopefully your box arrives in the post soon and you can post pics of it !
Best of luck

Ditto the Wokkstar. Don't go too high in the grits pre staining - you can end up polishing the body and it won't take any stain at all.

Only things I'd add would be:
Step 0.1 - Start a build diary and take lots of photos... We all love living vicariously through others builds, plus it gives you quick(ish) access to people with buckets of experience.
Step 0.2 - Dry build to make sure all the parts are there and they all fit together nicely - nothing worse than having everything schmick only to find it doesn't quite fit together.
Step 0.3 - Run a damp cloth over the body & neck - look for anything that comes up differently (like a spot). There may be some hidden glue in places you don't expect. Easy to get rid of at this stage with a wire brush (the green warehouse has a set of wire and plastic brushes slightly larger than toothbrushes for about $3). Once you've wire brushed any glue out, then you can sand down the body.

Step 1.5 Once you've sanded it all down and are happy with it, grab your trusty cloth and dampen it and run it against the grain over the whole body again - it will all go slightly fuzzy - give it a chance to dry and knock the fuzziness off and it should be ready to go.

In terms of letting things cure - seems that the longer you let your gloss layers cure between coats, the glossier they get.

My 2c.

Okay,

Have done a few shifts and have six days off now. The aussies post site says the kit has made it to Queensland....hopefully to get to me on Monday.

Went to the big green shed and got the little pack of brushes....great stuff....thanks for that guys.

Whilst I was there I grabbed an AEG 300w 125mm variable speed random orbital sander for $119-00....six year warranty. Nice. Grabbed some velcro paper for the sander....only goes up to 240 though. Hmmmm....may have to re-assess my plan above

I have read the Minwax wipe-on poly stuff again and it recommends 240grit between coats???

U-Beaut wants 400 or finer before dye??? Still lost here.

My thoughts:-

1. Do the mock build....do the damp down and inspection....do the toothbrush wire brush glue inspection.

2. Damp against the grain and let dry. Do 120 grit with the sander.

3. Pore fill the Basswood body and let dry.

4. Sand with 180 grit and wipe off.

5. Apply one coat of Sanding Sealer and let dry. Sand to 240 grit and clean off.

6. Damp down the surface...check for fuzzies....if none...them proceed. Apply the dye after having done some trials to get the concentration I want. (Really thinking about doing a dragon-burst....3rd build....may get it to look better this time....still nervy though.) Most likely use one pot of green dye, one of blue....a rag for each colour and a clean rag to blend in between each colour to feather the edge.

7. Let dry and check what I see.

8. If all good then sand to 400 or even 600 and then clean up then ONE coat only of the sanding sealer to act as a barrier coat.

9. Apply wipe-on poly (water Based) gloss on body.....and front of headstock....and satin on back of headstock and neck. Let dry and 240 grit and then total of three coats. (Still concerned about 240 between each coat....most likely will do by hand gently.)

Now we have all the bits here ready to go....just need the kit. sighhhh. :)

The kit has arrived. Gotta love Aussie Post.

[img]Box01.jpg[/img]

This is very different from the other PJ basses I have made.....like the headstock....all one piece too....my other two are multi-part.

The trial fit goes well.

[img]firstfit01.jpg[/img]

One thing of note.....I will have to find out where to to put the bridge on this one. The other two I have built had pre-drilled holes for everything.

Neckpocket is not too bad...some fluff and sticking up bits of wood in the bottom that will need a quick gouge or sand.

[img]neckpocket02.jpg[/img]

I have noted a couple of machine marks here and there....and a black dirt mark on the side. But so far no other marks....and no chunks missing. Gotta love that.

AEG sanding time here we come. :)
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Forgot a shot of the headstock.


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Looking great Greg - gotta love that feeling when you crack the box and get everything out for the first time.

I have to say that the random orbital sander is the best invention yet. Today I have sanded to 120....made up a slurry of wodd filler and slopped it all over the body....not the neck.

I let it dry for the recommended time plus 1 hour...just in case.

I then sanded it with the AEG with 180grit sandpaper. I still had to do the sides and the curly bits by hand. Wow...does that wood filler hang on. I would be sanding for days if I had to do a pore filled body by hand.

Both the neck and the body are hanging now. They have both been sanded to 180 and then hit with a coat of sanding sealer. They will both be sanded to 240 this afternoon.

Note to self....whole body pore fill....tape or cover all holes and cavities....that stuff gets in everywhere.

Also...whilst sanding I discovered that I do in fact have a two piece neck and headstock. :D
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looks good Greg, seems you are taking the right steps, be careful with the orbital sander near any curved parts or sides. I tend to sand as much of the sides/curves with the orbital then move to hand sanding, and the cutaways you will have to sand by hand.
Don't rush the build, I know you have waited a while for the kit but too many mistakes happen when you rush or don't wait long enough for finishes to cure. Keep up the build diary

Two questions guys if you please:-

1. This body does not have any pre-drilled holes to mount the bridge. I assume I will have to measure to find where I should drill the pilot holes. Does anybody have any template or measurements I can use? Thank You.

2. This body has a hole drilled and a recess gouged into the neck pocket. I assume that this is to enable a ground or earthing wire to run through the body. I have never seen this before....newbie....but all of the other seven guitars I have at home don't have this.

Do I have to line the neck pocket with copper tape and attach a ground wire to the tape....because I cannot see anything else it would go to....no like the metal bridge wire????

1. The saddles of your bridge need to end up the same distance from the twelfth fret as the distance from the nut to the twelfth. Roughly centre the saddles on their adjustment screws before you do this to assure you have room to move both ways.

2. The hole in the neck pocket is simply the easiest way to drill a hole between the pickup cavities. Its superfluous. Don't copper your neck pocket, it should be a wood to wood contact, no grounding needed.

If you haven't already, you should read through this thread.
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/commun...iewtopic&t=302
All the general information you should need.

Pablo thanks for tha response.

I have had a look through that thread before.

The kit is a YB4 which has 24 frets.....so the distance from 12 to 24 will need to be the same as 24 to the bridge? Think that is the answer.

Thanks.

Greg

Greg, measure the distance from nut to 12th fret, and bridge will be same distance from 12th fret plus about 3-4mm compensation. So example if nut to 12th fret is 380mm then E string saddle should be about 383mm from 12th fret. Wind the saddles in about the middle position so you have room to move forward or rearward

Greg - DB has done a tute on how to set a bridge on a PB (principle would be the same for a YB) in this build thread here (http://www.pitbullguitars.com/commun...wtopic&t=280.1) - makes the whole bridge placement thing nice and easy when you don't have any pre-drilled holes for placement. In doing it though, it was a lot easier with the right number of the right clamps - DB used 2 quickgrip type clamps - one for the neck and one for the bridge and 2 scissor style clamps for the E and G string. You could mickey mouse around them, but I think it'd be a whole lot easier to botch the whole process. Both types of clamps are readily available from your local hardware store and come in handy for heaps of other uses if you don't already have them.

I thought about doing something a little different. So I looked around the net and found heaps of photos with sprayed finishes and designs....not a lot of hand rubbed stains and dyes with anything other than single flat colours or a burst effect. So I thought about doing an angular....as in across the guitar...burst.

I don't have anything in purple....so purple and black it is. Read somewhere that Red and Blue make purple....found some ratios on the net....really dark nearly maroon colour.

I have sanded through to 240 with a sanding sealer and pore fill completed. One coat of the purple and a light black....need to gauge the darkness and mix before I get too carried away. (Photos taken whilst still drying.)

It will be interesting to see how this dries....sand to 320 then colour again. That will have to wait until Monday....love shift work. :)


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P.S. For a wood that not many people seem to like....Basswood has some nice grain. I am liking the translucent effect.....may have to consider options before I darken anything further in the next coats.

Dude that's pretty cool! I really like the gradient effect.

nice way to do this, will look a treat when the shiny top coats are done

Definitely different. I like.

nice work Greg, love the angular burst, its original and original is cool in my books. Keep going with the theme I reckon !

cool!

Thanks for the support guys. I was worried as it is such a departure from the norm. I actually quite like the result so far.....see how it goes with more colour and the gloss finish.

I lashed out and continued the theme up the neck and onto the headstock.

I love how dye finds the glue spots you missed....and then shows them to you. I have no found three I need to wire brush when it is dry.
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looks cool the neck Greg, keep the theme going.
Yes stain always uncovers any unsanded machine marks or glue so well !

Love the concept. This is looking very nice.

looking good .

I HAVE TO PUT THIS AWAY TODAY....OR I SHALL TOSS IT OUT....THIS IS THE WORST KIT I HAVE HAD THE MISFORTUNE TO BE INVOLVED WITH.

There must be no quality control.....or these things are like factory thirds or something.

I decided that I would try this "RELIC" look that has been a hit of late. So I made my marks....completed my finishing....was really happy with the result.

I began putting it all together today.

I noted the "tear" in the wood where the bridge earth wire comes through from the control cavity when I first got the kit. But who sticks a wire etc through the hole to check? Well not I. I have tried all I can to make a connection from the control cavity to the bridge.....there is not one.

I then began to fit the tuners to the head stock. I own a RBX270J so I took the angles from that headstock. I then noted that I had to really push hard to get the nuts to go down over the collars off the tuners.

Then to my amazement I note that the last one I fitted was completely solid. Yes a completely solid TUNER.....no place to poke the string in....no place to anchor the string....no way to tighten the string.

I can live with this....so I complete the build. I note that the neck angle seems not quite right....so I undo the neck bolts and check out the seating of the neck in the pocket....all looks good. I then set this guitar next to my RBX and note THE HUGE DIFFERENCE in the neck height and angle.

I think I can live with this and I continue.

I measure the nut to the 12th fret on both mine and the YB4. Nice....it is the same. I then measure the 12th fret to a mid point along the travel of the E string saddle and the G string saddle. I use a couple of clamps and vise clamps like on the movie on You Tube. I mark the five holes and I set the depth on my drill....and I make the move.

Now I look at the neck and the saddles and note that the saddles themselves do not appear over the end of the neck....really starting to wear me down now.

I adjust the saddles to the maximum travel they have.....I check the neck relief....little out....not much....by eye as I don't have an E string....see the solid tuner reference above. GRRRRR.

I try to tune and at least have A D G working....no chance.

I have upgraded POTS, 1/4 pounder P J Bass pick-ups from Seymour Duncan I purhcased and imported from the USA myself....and I have all this mounted to a F#$@%^$ STICK.

I must go now or I shall burn the whole thing....breathe....breather.

This has not been a great experience....not a lot fits....not a lot works....not a happy camper.

These kits are shit....go elsewhere people you can get better....I have two from other locations way better than this......STICK.
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Oh and it gets even better......the cavity cover....yeah the black plastic thing.

Whoever cut it....put the countersinking on the wrong side.....and yes they can only go on one way....and also the peel off plastic is on the other side....not good at all.....nice stick.

Wow I am surprised my first build was the YB4.
Great kit and its my regular player.

Ozz - sorry to hear that you're having some serious issues with the kit.

I can see the issue with the E string tuner - I believe that this is an easy fix and Adam can send out a replacement tuner pretty quickly. The cavity cover should also be an easy fix / replacement part that I believe can easily be mailed out.

As for the other issues, I believe that they are all fixable - neck relief is tricky - miniscule changes at the body can make significant changes along the neck. Without seeing the whole neck I am thinking it could be a couple of things:
The neck may not be fully embedded within the body - especially on the two screws on the bridge side - it's hard to tell from the photos above - from experience though, tightening those two screws can have a significant effect - especially on a bass with a long neck.
The neck may have some back / front bow and not be dead straight - from the missing truss rod cover, it looks like you have had a go with the truss rod, but it might also be the culprit.
I'm sure that there are also potentially other things that could be the source, but I must admit I'm still learning in this space, so will defer to wiser heads (DB / Gavmeister) who may be able to offer other solutions.

My only recommendation is this - from experience of myself and others on this forum, Adam takes QA seriously and if there are issues as you've put above with some of the kit, I'm sure an email to Adam@pitbullguitars.com will resolve many of them. I am sorry for the issues with the kit, but do believe that they are all fixable. They all require some effort to get them right - that's part of the challenge and fun of building your own guitar.

Hi Ozzbike

I am sorry you have been having issue with this particular kit. We supply over one hundred kits on average every month and we do have a generous return policy.
I would encourage you to make contact with adam@pitbullguitars.com. I'm sure that you will find that the Pitbull Guitars Service is outstanding. There are folks on the forum like Wokka and myself who have built over 50 Pitbullguitar Kits between us and never had an issue. So the issue that you are having is most unusual and we apologise for your frustration that you have experienced. Please send an e-mail to Adam and I'm sure he will restore your faith in our company and our products.

Gavmeister

Hey Ozzbike, I've issued you a full refund on your YB-4 kit, it sounds like you've got a dud kit, which does happen.

We've sold over 2000 kits now and had only 12 genuinely faulty kits. That's not a bad result. Still, if you're unlucky enough to be the recipient of one of those faulty kits, then it's only natural that you'd have a negative view of the supplier.

I don't keep spare tuners for the YB-4 kit, but can order some in for you. Or you can use the refund to upgrade them.

I do thank you for the refund. But I shall take a break now. This really mucked me around mentally. I will just play my RBX270 and chill.

Was looking forward to the extra oomph from the SD's though.

Sigh.

Greg

Greg sorry about the issues you have had. Very generous of Ads to refund the full cost of the kit.
PBG have had a very good record 0.6% of kits sold being faulty. They take their service very seriously.
Myself and my 4D mate Wayne have probably built close to 50 kits between us and the only major issue I've had is a broken truss rod which Adam sent me a replacement neck shortly after.
Take some time off from the build Greg and come back to it when your replacement tuner arrives.
As for the other issues I agree with what Gavmiester and Brendan have said, sure there is a workaround to the neck height/relief/saddle issues, sometimes bass guitars take a fair bit of setting up and tweaking and truss rod adjustments can take some practice.
I'm sure between the forum and the excellent PBG team we can all sort this out. Once you have this bass playing well I'm sure you will post positive comments about PBG, there hasn't been too many serious complaints I've come across in the 2 odd years I've been on the forum. Best of luck and please ask for any advice we are here to help

Adam I thank you for the refund....was a nice gesture. I have spent some time and some more money....too much probably judging on the end result. But I have a full assembled and working Bass now. More work needed, and possibly a strip and refinish. The neck is all over the place. But a serious clamping, jig adjustment, some planing, sanding, fret refinish, recrowning and relief setting and I can now play it. The pickups are really full of thump and overall I don't mind the feeling in my hands when playing....it was just frustrating during the build.

I do aplogise for the outburst about the quality of the kit. Was so looking forward to this build. Oh well we live and learn. I was out of line and do hope I can continue to be polite and well behaved from here on in. :)

Couple of pics.....maybe a strip and refinish whilst I wait for the dingo tone to cure on the current project. Hmmm.

I like the look of the dual colours as it is Ozz, glad its finished and making a good sound

Ozz - great to hear that it has all come together at the end. I hope that it sounds as good as it looks in the photos.

Another shining example of the PBG team's service.

I really like the body colours.