RC4 build

Hi all, this will be my second build, hopefully I'll get the finish right this time. I built an LP at the start of the year, tried for a trans black finished but stuffed it up and ended up painting over it. (More here: http://www.pitbullguitars.com/commun...ewtopic&t=1295)

This build Im gonna aim for a burst finish like this:
http://medias.audiofanzine.com/image...001-388264.jpg

Ive had a bit of a play around with some Dr Beaut wood dyes on some spare wood (I bought this a while ago, I assume its much the same as wudtone stuff everyone uses on here??), I'll have my colours sorted out soon. What Im not sure about is the correct process of going about things.

Please let me know where this process needs correcting:

• Sand face to a 400grit finish
  Rub some dye out over centre area (in this case, a few coats of yellow)
  Rub dye in from the sides for the burst colour (red-brown boarder)
  Clear coat with acrylic rattle can stuff (1 light coat, light sand then a couple decent coats??)
  Buff???

Should I sand in between the dye coats at all? Do I need to buff when Im done? Is the acrylic clear the way to go or should I use...???

Basically, I want this looking good but I dont need it to be a mirror finish epic job. After I got the basics of a dye finish down, Im gonna have a full on go at another maple top LP. :)

Thanks in advance for your help guys! I cant wait to get playing!! :)

Hey Mr Ed, I like you stain plans, generally using wudtone stains there's no need to sand finer than about 240 grit. The stain needs some tooth to grab onto. If you sand it too fine the stain won't soak into the timber as well.
Bursting is a technique that takes practice, so I'd recommend practicing on a scrap piece of wood. I generally stain darker and lighter colour in the same session, make sure you have a separate rag for each colour and a blending rag.
Generally give the body a light rub with fine steel wool between stain coats.
I wouldn't recommend an acrylic clear over the stain (I've not tried this so not sure how it will turn out, it may well work but I'd try it on scrap wood first), you would be better off getting some wudtone top coats to rag over if you aren't looking for a high gloss finish, although it is still possible using wudtone.

Hey Mr Ed! Great plan - she's gonna looks awesome. I agree with everything Wokka said. I can confirm that for Colortone dyes at least, both acrylic clear and Wudtone clear coats will work without any adverse reactions etc. Unfortunately haven't used Dr Beaut, but Colortone can be used in water or alchohol, so may well be similar.

cheers,
Gav.

Well the week build was clearly optimistic, Ive barely done anything yet.

Doing a bit of a mock build at the moment, and seeing as theres no bolt holes for the bridge I have to place it myself. I'll run a couple string lines to get the placement centred, but Im not certain on the scale length of it.

Google tells me a Rickenbacker is 33.25", I assume thats what this should be, but I dont know how to work out fret spacing to double check.

Measure from the fretboard side edge of the nut to the crown of the twelfth fret along the centreline of the fretboard (that's half scale), then double it and you've got your scale length. *It's important to measure it on each kit before placing a bridge as there can be some variation. *DB did a mini-guide to bridge placement here, it's for a P-bass so the measurements are different but the basics are the same.

If you are at all uncertain about the bridge position it's best to get your exact scale measurements and post them here, then everyone can help to double-check and ensure everything goes exactly where it should.

Cheers, I measured to the 12th fret and its spot on 430mm, which puts the bridge 860mm (33.85"), slightly longer than I thought.

To get the position of the bridge Ive drawn a pencil line at 860mm, then drawn an intersection line from both sides of the neck using a straight board, from there I can work out the centre.

The bridge that came with my kit has its bolt holes in line with the bridge. Theyre 94mm apart, so I measured out and marked where theyd go.

After doing all of this I realised I dont know much about set neck kits and Im not sure if the neck should be pulled out away from the body, or pushed in. This obviously makes a massive difference so I need to learn about that first. Really I should set the neck permenantly before marking these positions out, which means I'd do all the finishing first.

Do people set the neck before finishing on a set neck kit?

You can do the measurements now to place the bridge without setting the neck. The important thing is to get the pickup/pickguard in there to make sure everything fits at the same time. On an LP for example you would just put the neck pickup in and push the neck as far down as it can go against the pickup.

Not knowing the hardware in your kit it's a little hard to give you an exact instruction, but basically get the pickup and scratchplate in place, push the neck in as far in as it will go, and then clamp it. From there you can make your neck measurements, seat (clamp/hold) the bridge and then get the E and G strings on the bridge and laying up the neck (with the clamp still on). The idea is to check the bridge/neck/strings are all straight and that the strings are straight, travelling correctly up the fretboard, and the correct distance from each side of the neck.

Hope this helps.

cheers,
Gav.

Quote:

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/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from gavinturner on June 9, 2014, 13:07
Hey Mr Ed! Great plan - she's gonna looks awesome. I agree with everything Wokka said. I can confirm that for Colortone dyes at least, both acrylic clear and Wudtone clear coats will work without any adverse reactions etc. Unfortunately haven't used Dr Beaut, but Colortone can be used in water or alchohol, so may well be similar.

cheers,
Gav.

---

What Gav says is correct. He does all his builds with alcohol. Sometimes in the colour ;)

Anyway, she'll look great with a burst like that. Classic Ricky.

you've got some good advice there mate, looking forward to this coming together

Lol, well I didnt realise its been a year....so much for the week build!

Anyways, thought Id update the thread. Ive set the neck and got the colour to the point Im pretty happy with. Bought another bridge because I wanted one a bit chuckier than the kit one. The finish is not finished by any means, but the colour is getting there. I have to go over the middle yellow area a bit more after some water got spilled on it, Im gonna bring the dark border at the bottom up a little higher, fix up the bloody glue spots (somehow), clean up the binding and clear coat it. Then decide if I want a custom cover plate or not (probably will because custom and Im not 100% sold on the white, or the shape as it sits)

Pics as it is now:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...ps5njtjy21.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...psk3qltqu6.jpg

And with the hardware sitting in it (not positioned properly though):
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...ps2wte1yj0.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...psiw3qw8ij.jpg

Still a little way to go, but Im pretty happy so far.

I spent AGES stuffing about trying to fix the glue spots. Sanded it right back, tried the brass brush method a dozen times, etc... it worked a tiny bit but not enough. Next plan is to finish it as is but then go over the bad spots with some of this stuff: http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/cata...asp?ictNbr=628

Any other tips on sorting the glue spots?

That looks like it would be really nice with a cut down pick guard just over the control cavity....

Food for thought?

Hey Mr Ed, burst coming along nicely. As for the glue spots they can be very stubborn. You might have to rub those areas back and keep trying, I wouldn't go any further staining till you try and remove them, otherwise you may have to try cover them up with a darker colour. Looks like most the glue spots are close-ish to the edges back and front so try a darker colour
As for the pickguard have a look what others have done on this model or a custom shape would be cool

That's looking really nice.

Cheers guys. The cut down plate over the main cavity is a good idea... but id have to also cover the gap better the neck pick up and neck. I dunno about a separate trim there, might look a bit haphazard but ill look at some other projects. ;)

So sanding back the glue spots is still my best option? Ive done that quite a bit but maybe Ill try a courser paper. I think Ive already taken quite a bit out it with 80 grit :/

So anyone tried the blendal sticks? If i can find some tomorrow I might give them a go first. Sanding is kinda heart breaking and id hate to start from scratch only to find the sanding still doesnt work.

Burst is looking really killer! you might try wire brushes rather than sanding to begin with. Brush the area up and try to get some more stain in there. If no joy then maybe sandpaper is the answer.

cheers,
Gav.

I agree with Gav's advice, the wire brushes work nicely for glue spots!

Ive done the wire brush thing. It made a difference but not enough.

Coming along nicely mred, burst looks great. For gluespots on my LP kit I ended up sanding back a bit (180 grit), applying stain, sand back (240grit), repeat etc. This was a painful and slow process but evened out glue stains and other dye spread issues.

sounds like the only option Mr Ed try rub back with 180 grit (or even 120 grit then back to 240 if 180 doesn't remove it), I know its a hassle but will be worth it. Sounds like the glue has really seeped into the grain.
A darker stain on the edge should hide the remains of the glue after its been rubbed back.
Treat the burst you have done as a practice run

Well today I went and bought a new block and some more sand paper, tomorrow I sand it back. Since Im doing that, Im gonna make a few changes to the body. Im gonna try and infill the neck cutout a tad, so I can use a smaller cavity plate and show more of the timber. The top right of the body really is the prettiest bit, so Im glad someone suggested that and got me thinking.

The infill bit will either be great or a complete disaster. Cross your fingers!

Plans sound good Mr Ed. Best of luck

Bit of progress.... sanded the whole thing down, decided not to carve the sides as a flat back would probably be better with a bit of a burst finish. I chiseled out some tassie oak for a little infill around the neck pickup, but I doubt I'll use it.

Ive put the first coat of colour on it now, hopefully I dont need to redo it again! Fairly happy with it but its still a bit dull and not blended very well. Hopefully a few more coats will help.

Pics:
Sanding....
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...psqzuxjdtt.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...pspkzb1sno.jpg

Little infill piece cut out...probably wont be used, but it was an interesting exercise.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...psqrnau0to.jpg

More sanding....
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...psa8bmat1n.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...pshcamwohq.jpg

First coat of colour (2nd attempt) No more glue spots!! :)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...psv0chqmms.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...psdt7vkelk.jpg

Still a long way to go though.......

the 2nd attempt looks 100% better Mr Ed, glad the glue spots are finally gone.
I don't understand the neck infill piece are you thinking of just a bridge pickup and the infill to cover the neck pup cavity ?
What year was the Formula 1 encyclopedia book released in the bottom photo ?

I was planning to get rid of the whole cover plate and use a couple smaller timber removable infill bits. The neck infill would have had the pickup recessed into it and the whole piece would bolt in from the back. The idea was the face would be entirely stained timber.

I'll still stain that infill bit up and have another look at it, but Ive shied away from the idea now in favour of a more simple custom cover plate.

Reason for mucking around is the nicest bit of timber on the guitar is mostly covered up by the standard cover plate. Seems a pity.

And lols, nice spotting,, the F1 book is a 2014 print. Still has Webber & Vettel in RBR. You an F1 fan?

yeah pickguards have a nasty habit of hiding the nicest grain on the body.
Yeah I'm a huge F1 fan, been to about 7 or 8 Melbourne F1 races and went to Malaysian GP this year. It's a real bummer Red Bull and Renault have given Riciardo such a rubbish car this year !

Awesome, Im a big fan. I was in Melbourne this year (first time actually going to a race in person)...started off the weekend sitting on top of Ricciardo's pit drinking champagne , finished the weekend in an ambulance after falling over and giving myself a grade 3 AC joint dislocation....
Im going to the Suzuka race in September, pity about the redbull engine but should be a great time none the less. Hopefully better than my time in Melbourne!
Bring on 2017 with the big rule changes, should make it much more interesting and at the very least it couldnt possibly be any worse for poor Ricciardo.

wow you must have fallen hard on your knee bummer.
Suzuka should be a great track/venue.
I was at the Melbourne GP 2014 and was so disappointed at the lack of sound of the new power units

That's a cool burst Mr. Ed.

Welcome Mr Ed, another nice Ricki !

Well a few more coats of stain have gone on.... while it wet its exactly what I want so I reckon Im about ready for clear after a bit more drying time.

Ive been thinking more about pick gaurds/cover plates/whatever.... Ive decided Im gonna cut up some titanium. Partly because the colours now look a little fire-ish and I can heat-colour the titanium so it looks 'hot' but mostly because its titanium and titanium is awesome. :P

Pics:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...psba9xdqqp.jpg

Testing a bit of heat on the titanium (not as easy as I thought it would be but the oxide layer is also more durable so should work well)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...psdjxq6egk.jpg

I scratched a bit off to see whats what... although it looks scratched off here because of the light angle, its actually more burnished and from square on you cant see the silver titanium shine.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...pscm4frxz8.jpg

I've almost finished drawing up the cut out shapes in CAD. Im not going to attempt cutting it by hand, it'll either be plasma cut or water jetted. Probably wont get around to that for a few weeks.

Also, the bridge I bought is standard spacing so I'll need to find a bigger one. Maybe titanium finish if possible... but Im trying to keep the build on somewhat of a budget so Im not sure what I'll do about that yet. :/

Clear coat.... the plan is acrylic rattle can. Have a can of septone sitting here I was gonna try.

I have a compressor and spray gun in the basement but using those in my apartment block courtyard is probably gonna be pushing it... :P

Nice colours. Waiting to see how titanium is gonna look like. Fun idea. :)

Well Ive made some progress over the past month or so. Ive put about 5 coats of clear on it (about 1.5 cans) and carefully rubbed it back with 1200 after the first few coats, then a couple more, then 2000 grit. Its very smooth, but I can still feel a bit of grain in it. I was hoping this acrylic clear would fill the grain and that would be all the filling I need but that doesnt seem to be happening and Im a bit unsure how to proceed from here.

I get the feeling this rattle can paint is going on too thin. Watching videos of various people use a spray gun, it seems to go on MUCH thicker than the rattle can does, but although I own a compressor and spray gun, thats not really an option here. I could keep going with the rattle can, but Im not all that sure thats actually problem.... perhaps I need to use a courser grade of sand paper, but if Im right about the clear being thin, I might go through it, damage the colour and ruin everything. After having to start from scratch already on this guitar, I do not want to risk that.

Is there a trick to figure out how thick the clear is?

The other thought is that Im just being picky and that I should just polish it as is, and that a little timber texture is a good thing.

this is looking really nice Ed.
I think you choices are to persist with more clear, or enjoy the texture

Hi Ed

With my first build I didn't bother to sand the bare wood but thought that if I put a primer on and sand that - I would not need to sand the wood so much. So I put a can of sanding primer on and sanded. A bit of grain marks were left. So I thought I'll put a generous amount of color on it so I can sand that and I did. Put a 1,5 cans of acrylic car paint on it and sanded. Still inconsistent. After that I put a 2k acrylic can on it and sanded that. Was afraid that I'd go through the surface so was very careful. Still the grain marks are there. During this I learned how important it is to sand the wood as smooth as possible before any coats of finish.

Although now that I did a TO surface and sanded that way more than the acrylic before - I'm gonna take the first project back to sanding. The acrylic surface is way thicker that TO and can take alot more sanding. If you put 5 coats on it you should be able to sand it quite a bit.

By the way - i did the neck with regular auto acrylic and it dried quicker than the 2k. I'm never gonna spend money on 2k again - at least the spraycan version costs 3-5 times more than 1k and you get great results with the regular.

The wood was very well sanded prior to the clear going on. Would have been a 240 grit before I stained it, and Id had a few rounds of 320 and a bit more stain while I was blending it.

After its dried from the wetsand Ive had a bit more of a look at it. I can clearly see the widers smooth areas than have been dulled by the 2000 grit, and there are lines along the grain still shiny from the clear that hasnt been sanded yet.

I guess I'll give it another sand with the 1200 grit. 2000 might just be too smooth to cut a decent amount of clear off and flatten it out (although it did make a significant difference!).

Dude, your avatar makes me laugh.