Dans TL1-A

My first build, enjoying it immensely so far but I'm not the handiest with any kind of tool so....

So far I've finished the body in a pale butterscotch/blonde with wudtone, satin top coat.
A little more blonde than I intended, mixed too much white in with the butterscotch but I'm learning to love it anyway!!
Neck finished in vintage amber.

I saw Bass Guy's TL1-A diary after I'd started finishing the body, I hadn't even considered the possibility of needing to rout the bridge pickup cavity...

Since taking the below pic, I looked at the instructions for fitting the bridge in the "how to build" forum.
So winding the saddles fully forward as instructed I get the following measurements:-

Nut to 12th fret - 323mm
12th fret to low E saddle - 325mm
12th fret to high E saddle - 323mm

Would I be right in thinking these measurements are ok, given the instructions in the "how to" forum?

Or do I need to route? The gap between bridge and scratchplate looks about the same as on factory teles I've looked at. So there wouldnt seem to be much room to move the bridge forward anyway.

I'd be very grateful for any advice.

Also, I've managed to take a chip out of the lower heel on the body,see pic, how would forum members go about repairing this?

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...7-IMG_0116.JPG
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...4-IMG_0112.JPG

from my readings the saddle positions seem fine.

for the chip, one way would be:
keep any wood sanded off the body
fill the gap using a mixture of the sanded wood, some glue and a dab of wudtone you used to colour it with, make a few little batches to get one that matches

If you can't find any sandings from the body, hit one of the pickup or your control cavities to get some from there. I'd also look at shielding for the cavities, unless you want to be able to tune your guitar like an FM reciever :).

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/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from Brendan on June 1, 2014, 18:36
I'd also look at shielding for the cavities, unless you want to be able to tune your guitar like an FM reciever :).

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LOL. That was pretty good, Brendan. I may have to plagiarise it!

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/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from Brendan on June 1, 2014, 18:36
If you can't find any sandings from the body, hit one of the pickup or your control cavities to get some from there. I'd also look at shielding for the cavities, unless you want to be able to tune your guitar like an FM reciever :).

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Thanks for the replies


What kind of glue? Just a standard wood adhesive?

Was planning to shield the cavities and bought the shielding kit with the guitar...

Looked at it yesterday and couldn't figure out how to redo the holes for the wires to run through, the "how to build" section on shielding doesnt seem to cover this. My concerns are:-
1. How to physically create the connecting holes
2. How to ensure I don't make an ineffective shield by doing a poor job of it (!)

Sorry if I should be posting this in the general support section, I will repost there if necessary.

Cheers

Dan

Titebond is the glue of choice, available from Masters or Carbatech.

I'm perhaps still half asleep, so I'm missing what you want to do with the connecting holes?

These should already be predrilled. As you apply the shielding, mark where the holes are and puncture the shielding with a drill bit.

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/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from Gavin1393 on June 2, 2014, 08:16



These should already be predrilled. As you apply the shielding, mark where the holes are and puncture the shielding with a drill bit.

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Thanks Gavin, I had a feeling it might be as simple as that but wanted to be sure

Dan - quick way to check the shielding is done right - grab your multi meter and check that there's electrical connectivity across a couple of points across the channel. My simple approach is to get a scalpel and poke an "X" where the hole is. Finding the hole is easy as well - once you're done, push down with your finger near where the hole is and it'll pop up as the copper will stretch just a tiny bit and create a nice little dent where the hole is.

As for glue - go Titebond - some will say that PVA will do it - that said, there was someone on the forum a couple of months ago who used Aquadhere and a couple of days after stringing up his guitar noticed the neck was parting ways with the body. I've seen the Gavmeister trying to separate 2 pieces of wood that were titebonded together and the wood tore, not the glue. That neck won't go anywhere once it's Titebonded in :).

Another thing with the shielding - overlap the edges of any of your cavities by 1-2mm that way when you put the shielded cover over the top, it should all join and make a nice little farraday's cage.

If you want to get super precious, keep the multimeter handy - once it's all wired up and strung up, you should have connectivity between the control cavity and the bridge.

All that said, don't stress - the copper stuff from the PitBull guys is pretty hard to get wrong.

Word of caution though - the cut edges of the tape are sharp - almost surgically so - have had a situation where I noticed a little claret on one of my guitars as I was shielding. Hadn't noticed that I'd nicked myself with the tape just enough to draw blood.

hi Dan,

a quick note about the bridge position. If you are at all in doubt, use the stewmac fret position calculator to double check it's position relative to the neck:

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Fret...-fretcalc.html.

It will give you the exact position of the mounting screws relative to the measured scale-length of the neck. I always use it to double check and it has never failed me yet.

cheers,
Gav.

Lawry - was talking to a cousin at one stage who was regaling (sp?) me on how on a good day he could tune in the cricket on his guitar - mind you we were all broke students at that stage, so it may not have been a flash one... Gut feel though was there wasn't much by way of shielding :P .

First time back to the diary for a while, thanks to Brendan and Gavin for the helpful advice.

Cavities shielded and all body hardware, minus the bridge, attached.


Before I start drilling holes for the tuners I wonder if forum members could take a look at these pics and give me the benefit of their experience.
It seems the holes for the first and second string tuners are closer to the edge of the headstock than the other four, is this normal?




http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...b-IMG_0141.JPG
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...4-IMG_0144.JPG
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...9-IMG_0145.JPG

Edited to say:- I did do a dummy build but somehow failed to pick this up.

Looking pretty hot, Dan!
Ideally the tuners should follow a line but it looks as if that may not in this case judging by the photos. I don't think it is going to cause you any grief, though. If you do want to line them up you will have to fill the naughty holes and then re-drill. Tough call.
Also, does the bridge plate move closer to the neck? It looks a bit shy in the photo. Although I notice you have got it screwed in.

Thanks Lawry,
I don't think I'd be able to fill and re-drill without causing a disaster so I guess I'll probably just go with it as is.

Interesting point you make about the bridge, the bridge pickup cavity only just fits the pickup so no option to move it forward without routing it. I ran the neck/bridge measurements past the forum and the consensus was that I could get away with it without having to move the bridge forward. That gap between the bridge plate and the pick guard seems to be there on a fair few factory teles so I'm not too worried from a looks point of view, just hope the intonation works out!

Cheers

Dan you will need to move the bridge forward but enlarging the pickup cavity, if not you'll get intonation problems.

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/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from SIMpleONe89 on June 15, 2014, 21:40
Dan you will need to move the bridge forward but enlarging the pickup cavity, if not you'll get intonation problems.

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Really? That would be a nightmare for me. The scale length measurements as is are within the tolerance in the guide on here though...

The gap between bridge and pickguard seems to be fairly common, this pic was kind of the look I'm going for


http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...E120911-07.jpg

whoops!!
Simon's post made me think I'd better measure again and sure enough I've stuffed it up...
I will have to route the bridge cavity about 5-6mm forwards.
I could do with some advice on routing please, I'm assuming I'll need a chisel or two but don't really know where to start... Just shielded the bloody thing too, gah!!

Bugger, where are you located, Dan? There might be someone in your area that can help.

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/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from pablopepper on June 16, 2014, 08:58
Bugger, where are you located, Dan? There might be someone in your area that can help.

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I'm in NSW, central coast.

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/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from danluland@dodo.com.au on June 16, 2014, 08:44
whoops!!
Simon's post made me think I'd better measure again and sure enough I've stuffed it up...
I will have to route the bridge cavity about 5-6mm forwards.
I could do with some advice on routing please, I'm assuming I'll need a chisel or two but don't really know where to start... Just shielded the bloody thing too, gah!!

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Yeah because if you leave it that way you might be pushing the limit of the intonation, and most notes will be flat (too far from the nut). I also had the problem and didn't have a router, so I chiselled it! I used a 2mm drill bit and drilled pockets of holes, then chiselled. Took a while to make it nice with a rasp file, still not nice enough, but you'll be covering it up with foil and the bridge, so who cares!

With copper shielding in place you should be able to press the bridge forward and leave an impression on the copper showing you exactly where the pickup is hitting the in the cavity, then you can work out the best way to tackle it without hurting your finish. I think with mine it was mainly in the corners, particularly on the bass side. If you are lucky you may be able to get away with just shaving a bit from the corners and give the leading face a slight undercut, depending on your pickup and how well the rout was originally cut.

Post some pics of the cavity if you can as it may help work out the best approach.

yes Dan I just finished one of these kits and its worth enlarging the brige pup cavity. As it will be covered by the plate you should get away with drilling out about 5mm and clean up with a chisel. Doesn't need to be the entire depth but most of the depth.

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/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from WeirdBits on June 16, 2014, 11:42


Post some pics of the cavity if you can as it may help work out the best approach.

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Thanks guys, here's the bridge cavity pic. Basically it's pretty much the same dimensions as the pickup itself, with just a hair's wiggle room if any. I tried pressing the pickup into the shielding to leave an impression but it didnt really work.

I will probably go with Wokka's suggestion on enlarging in the next couple of days.
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-con...5-IMG_0148.JPG

Lol Dan I ordered new Tonerider pickups and I realised the bridge pickup is too wide for it! So I have to enlarge the cavity sideways by hand again! Hopefully I don't damage the finish.

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/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from SIMpleONe89 on June 16, 2014, 21:35
Lol Dan I ordered new Tonerider pickups and I realised the bridge pickup is too wide for it! So I have to enlarge the cavity sideways by hand again! Hopefully I don't damage the finish.

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Ah, thats really good to know, I'm thinking of toneriders now that I'm gaining confidence with soldering up the electrics. Maybe I should take mine out sideways now to save having to do it again later!!
How far sideways do you need to go Simon?

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/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from danluland@dodo.com.au on June 17, 2014, 08:23

Quote:

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/<\\/p>[/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/]<\\/p>/Quote from SIMpleONe89 on June 16, 2014, 21:35
Lol Dan I ordered new Tonerider pickups and I realised the bridge pickup is too wide for it! So I have to enlarge the cavity sideways by hand again! Hopefully I don't damage the finish.

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Ah, thats really good to know, I'm thinking of toneriders now that I'm gaining confidence with soldering up the electrics. Maybe I should take mine out sideways now to save having to do it again later!!
How far sideways do you need to go Simon?

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Just 3mm out sideways. Actually with a chisel you can do it real fast, after you drill to the desired depth. I did the sides just in 15 mins, then cleaned up with a file. Not the prettiest but it's covered up by copper foil :D

Final assembly done minus the strap buttons.

All the electrics working ok and I'm pleasantly surprised by the tone from the stock pickups, particularly the neck.

Having problems with the intonation though and hoping you guys can sort me out.
I'm fairly comfortable with setting up an electric guitar so I'm confident that I've got the neck relief and action adjusted correctly. 1st and second strings are intonated correctly but on all the other strings the intonation is out.
I've tuned the strings to pitch and adjusted string length to give equal pitch between 12th fret harmonic and 12th fret fretted note but 3rd to 6th strings are all sharp from the 1st fret, decreasing in sharpness up to around the 7th fret and then in tune from there on up.
Hopefully I'm just doing something dumb and you guys can put me right!!
The saddles need to be wound a fair way back to get the correct intonation at the 12th fret which makes me wonder if I needed to route out the bridge pickup cavity after all....

tried to load some pics but not working today

Dan, sounds like the bridge is too far back, you say you never routed the bridge pup cavity about 5mm forward ?
Please post the measurement of nut to 12th fret and 12th fret to treble and bass saddles

If it's sharp in the first part of the fretboard it may be your nut height. As a quick check, if you fret a string at the 3rd fret it should just clear the 1st fret (if you give it a light tap with your finger over the fret you should just hear it hit the metal).

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/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from wokkaboy on June 23, 2014, 16:33
Dan, sounds like the bridge is too far back, you say you never routed the bridge pup cavity about 5mm forward ?
Please post the measurement of nut to 12th fret and 12th fret to treble and bass saddles

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Thanks Wokka, no I did move the bridge as far forward as it would go ( hard up against the PG)sorry if I wasn't clear.

nut to 12th fret= 323mm
12th fret to 1st string = 327mm
12th fret to 6th string = 333mm

As I say, this gives correct intonation at the 12th fret

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/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from WeirdBits on June 23, 2014, 18:10
If it's sharp in the first part of the fretboard it may be your nut height. As a quick check, if you fret a string at the 3rd fret it should just clear the 1st fret (if you give it a light tap with your finger over the fret you should just hear it hit the metal).

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Thanks Scott, I think you may have nailed it.
I noticed the nut height was high when I was setting up but was only thinking of playability concerns, didn't realise it would affect tuning too.
There is a gap of about .020" at the first fret (6th string) when fretted at the 3rd fret, my book gives a figure of .020 - .022" at the first fret "unfretted" so clearly too high as is.

My book also says nut work should only be attempted by a professional.... also, I understand a set of nut files is fairly expensive.
Any suggestions how I should proceed?

Cheers

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/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from danluland@dodo.com.au on June 24, 2014, 08:05

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/<\\/p>[/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/]<\\/p>/Quote from wokkaboy on June 23, 2014, 16:33
Dan, sounds like the bridge is too far back, you say you never routed the bridge pup cavity about 5mm forward ?
Please post the measurement of nut to 12th fret and 12th fret to treble and bass saddles

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Thanks Wokka, no I did move the bridge as far forward as it would go ( hard up against the PG)sorry if I wasn't clear.

nut to 12th fret= 323mm
12th fret to 1st string = 327mm
12th fret to 6th string = 333mm

As I say, this gives correct intonation at the 12th fret

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Should probably also mention that I've loaded a set of 10-46 strings on there.

Dan, yes sounds like the nut slots are too high, where do you live ? I'd suggest you find a guitar tech maybe at a music shop that can cut the slots deeper. I just forked out for a set of nut slot files so I don't have to keep annoying DB, they are $100 including postage for a set of 3 double sided files from realtone.

Is it the stock plastic nut? If you want to have at go at modifying it yourself (cheaply) you have a couple of options (attempt at your own risk): Grab some old strings, particularly the wound strings, rough up short lengths with some coarse sandpaper and then use the matching strings to carefully saw each slot slightly deeper, test and repeat. Or, grab yourself a cheap feeler gauge and make your own nut files. Even if you just come up with something thin enough to work for the G string, you can use it on the other thicker slots and then finish them up with the old string method. While these options aren't ideal, with care and patience they could get you close enough. Start with one slot, get that right and check that it has the desired effect on the tuning before moving on to the others. Small adjustment, test, small adjustment, test, as you don't want to go too deep and ruin your nut.

Obviously, the best option is to get a new nut made that specifically matches your neck, action and string gauge, or at the very least an off the shelf nut that's a close match that you can then tweak as needed.

Just remove the plastic nut and get a bone nut. You can file the bottom of the nut to lower the height if you don't have nut files. That's what I did before I got my files. Do remember to use a flat edge like a ruler to keep the bottom perfectly flat. Keep checking as you go so you don't take off too much.

Thanks guys,

Having resigned myself to changing the nut I thought I might as well have a go at the slots first to see if I could get it better. I just folded a pice of 240 grit and carefully deepened the slots, checking regularly as I went. I certainly wouldn't recommend this method and inevitably there was a bit of widening of the slots too, but.....

It worked!! My TL1 is now perfectly in tune and playing like butter, sounding pretty cool too, I will put up a video if I can work out how to do it.

Obviously a new bone nut will be the way to go at some point and I'll probably upgrade the controls and pups at some point but for now I'm a very happy customer :)

Still can't post pics for some reason.

Good to hear you got the nut sorted Dan.
Would love to see a video if you work out how you can do one.

I post my video's to YouTube and then just post a copy link on the forums.

Great news Dan, glad it worked out.

As far as posting images, overly large file size and image dimensions are usually what prevent uploads. Make sure your images are no more than 1000 pixels on the longest side and less than 500KB-1MB in file size, click the reply button on the lower right and then use the 'Choose File' buttons to select the images to upload. If multiple images won't upload, try just one per post. Or, if you have the images hosted online, use the 'image' button above the (Quick)Reply box to link them ( ie. [ img ] url here [ / img ] without the spaces).