IB-4 Build Started!

Hi Everyone!
I've just taken delivery of my new IB-4 kit. All seems in order, although I suspect this build will be a little more complex than my last (a TL kit from another manufacturer (sorry!) that had more prep factory done (holes predrilled for scratch plate and bridge etc).

On my last build, I lined all the cavities with copper tape (as recommended by Pitbull) and also ensured that the bridge and cavities were linked back to the main earth point. But - although there is a hole for a bridge link wire on the IB-4, the bridge itself appears to be powder coated and is therefore covered by an insulating layer. I can see that removing a section of the coating would enable the wire to contact the base of the bridge - but the strings would still be isolated. Would removing the coating from the holes where the strings pass through the bridge give an adequate earth contact?

Anyone else out there building (or have built) an IB-4? I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get into the build, but for now I'm going to concentrate on fettling the body and a sanding marathon as I intend to finish this with oil - not paint - to bring out the natural wood finish.
Cheers
NigeS

Hi NigeS. Had built a custom IB4 some moths ago, maybe my diary can give you some input. In my case I just sanded a bit the bottom of the bridge, where the wire would touch it. Instead of copper I put some isolation paint on all the cavities. Have no noise problems at all. If I understand it right, you do not have to remove any coating besides the wire touching bridge space. Wish you good luck und much fun with the build!

Hi and welcome NigeS.

I agree with Alexej - only the underneath of the bridge should require some paint scratched/sanded off to contact the ground wire. I think the strings naturally wear away some of the coating on the saddles to make a good connection.

Good luck with the sanding. It will also pay to start a build diary.

For shielding paint, I use Rustins G Shield. https://northwestguitars.co.uk/produ...ng-paint-125ml. One tin goes a long way. It's often more convenient for shielding cavities, especially ones for body-mounted pickups. Much better aesthetically having black cavities than copper-lined ones where you can see the copper IMO.


I'll often use the paint in conjunction with copper tape, the tape going on the flatter areas like backs of scratchplates.

Man if we could only get that in the US for your price. Not sure why, but the cheapest I could find on eBay was actually from the UK. Here, the cheapest no-brand shielding paint I can find is $14 for an ounce or two (~29-58ml). My cheap solution is aluminum HVAC tape... A $5 role is a lifetime supply for guitar shielding. Not as aesthetic, though...

You can't solder earthing wires to Aluminium tape like you can to copper. Unearthed shields don't do too much good...

However - I think I'm close to the final finish on my IB-4 body. 14 coats of TruOil, sanded to decreasing grits throughout. Final coat was a wet sand with 2000 grit, which has left a nice 'just off gloss' finish. (The burn on the rear (done when I had to modify the pocket for the jack so that the nut could be fitted with a router) will be covered by the rear plate. Just need approval from the customer (my daughter) early next month...

Neck has turned out really well. Also used TruOil - but far fewer coats on the harder maple. The feel of the back is amazing! I've sanded the fret edges andjust need some fretboard cleaner and oil (from Crimson Guitars - a great source for UK builders (sorry Pitbull...))

The neck is a really good fit in the body. I've set the bridge position after a trial fit and drilled two of the pilot holes - in case I need to move it on final assembly. Any thoughts on tuner winder orientation? Looking at the original Ib guitars, they seem to be slanted back towards the body - but I think they look better at 90 deg to the neck centre line?....

Cheers
N

Just got to work out why I can't upload photos...

Pics need to be less than 1500 pixels on the longest side, so need to be resized. See here if you're on a PC.

https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...l=1#post225744

If on a phone, there are resizing apps.

You don't need to solder to the shielding, there are alternatives. You can simply tape down a length of wire with the end exposed with another bit of shielding tape. Or you can use a crimp eyelet on a wire and use a small screw to hold it to the tape, or even solder a wire to a small washer and screw that down to the shielding tape. I've done all three.

Tuner orientation? Up to you really. The tuners work the same, and certainly for the upper tuners on a 2+2 setup, they are easier to turn if you've got the guitar on a strap if they face you slightly. Not quite so sure about the lower ones. Looking at current SR basses, the top tuners are angled back slightly, the bottom ones are straight.

I don't know anyone who uses a bass tuner winder (most bass players don't change their strings anything like as often as guitar players), but they exist and angled tuners could stop them working if the handle catches on the headstock or the next tuner key because of the angle.

Thanks for tips, Simon...
N

Let's try the pics again after Simon's advice....
Attachment 44630
Attachment 44631

Here's a couple of pics of my last build -- a TL kit for my daughter. She's a bit of a Goth - hence the black body / black neck colour scheme. I spent 3 weeks tweaking the neck bend, string heights and intonation, but it still wasn't as good as I wanted. Ran out of time as it was to be a Christmas present delivery - but she was delighted!
Attachment 44632
Attachment 44633

Cheers!
N

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Simon Barden

You don't need to solder to the shielding, there are alternatives. You can simply taps down a length of wire with the end exposed with another bit of shielding tape. Or you can use a crimp eyelet on a wire and use a small screw to hold it to the tape, or even solder a wire to a small washer and screw that down to the shielding tape. I've done all three.

---

I have used all three as well. My favorite currently is a variation on "use a small screw." I put some of the alu foil around the pickguard screws holes. that way it is contiguous with the alu foil on the bottom of the pickguard. In turn, that foil is in contact with the pots. Easy to see if this is working by putting a multimeter lead on a pickguard screw, and the other on the jack nut.

Quote:

---

I don't know anyone who uses a bass tuner winder (most bass players don't change their strings anything like as often as guitar players) strings , but they exist and angled tuners could stop them working if the handle catches on the headstock or the next tuner key because of the angle.

---

I use a winder on my basses. I have used it more since I started building than all the time before that combined, however, which sort of makes your point ;-)

So... Having got approval from the 'customer' (my daughter) for the finish on both body and neck, I'm moving onto next stages. Holes in body for neck screws opened out to a clearance fit and re-aligned to be central with the recesses. Still deciding on conductive paint or copper tape for the PU cavities, I checked to see if there would be enough clearance under for a small screw / tag: OK. But then noticed PUs sit well above the front face. Checked screw length against springs - that I assume are supposed to do under the PUs. Even fully compressed, the springs take up all of the exposed length of the screws when put through the PUs. Are you supposed to cut them down? If so - by how much? Also - how the hell do you align 4 loose screws and springs before you start to tighten them? Any advice gratefully received... Also not happy with the jack socket mounting. Even after some work on the control cavity, I'm not certain I'd be able to tighten it correctly. So I've ordered a couple of black oval Jack plates to experiment with. Complete with sockets, these are £0.99 each from Gear4music - another great UK resource! Maybe I'll use the plate with the original Jack - we'll see...

As an alternative to springs, you can use strips of pickup "height foam" (neoprene, I believe) which you position under the pickup. With the barrel socket on my IB-5, I wasn't happy with the way the outer flange did not snug up against the body, so I ended up recessing the hole using a stepped drill bit, and the fit and appearance are improved.

Springs come in different lengths. Typically the short ones are referred to as "single coil" springs. The long ones are called "humbucker" springs.

If you go with the foam the nice thing is that it tends to put even pressure on the bottom of the pup so it won't look tilted, like it can sometimes with springs.

That said, if you keep foam long enough it will disintegrate and make a terrible mess. Some people like using surgical tubing instead of a spring. Unfortunately, over time it gets brittle and hard.

Hard to beat springs for durability.

This thread really should be in the build diary section. You can use the triangle ‘report’ function to ask a mod to move it.

I’d use a neoprene foam. It’s what you’d get if you bought Seymour Duncan or DiMarzio or Tonerider replacement bass pickups and it’s what Fender use in the factory. I don’t know of anyone who use springs for a soapbar bass pickup mounting direct to the body. Just look on Amazon and you can get A4 sheets of adhesive-backed closed cell neoprene foam for just a bit more than a single strip of ‘pickup’ foam from a guitar components store.

e.g. Self Adhesive Sticky Back Closed Cell Sponge Foam A4 Sheet - Choose Thickness (8mm) https://amzn.eu/d/dL4iBpB

You’ll probably pay around £3 each for a small piece of the same foam if bought as ‘pickup height foam’.

It helps to know the rough height of the base of the pickup above the cavity floor as the foam is hard and doesn’t compress to any less than around 60% (my estimate) of its thickness. You do want to compress the foam a bit so the pickup is firmly supported. I bought a wide selection of thicknesses as I work on quite a few guitars and basses and it’s come in very useful. But if you just buy one thickness, then either measure and select or buy a much thinner foam and simply stick pieces together to get the correct height e.g. 5mm will give you 10,15 and 20mm height options.

Avoid squashy thin foam as you won’t hold the pickups in place firmly and the foam’s resistance will decrease quite quickly over time and the pickup will start to flop about.

Yes, the foam will start to break down at the edges over time, but you are talking 20-30 years on average before it becomes an issue.

The kits with the barrel jacks are very badly made with respect to the barrel mounting. But the thin at the edges body shape normally means that a standard jack+plate fitting won’t work.

On the real thing, the control cavity is routed so there’s a flat edge to screw the barrel nut to. On the kits it’s at a significant angle. If you have a drill that’s barrel-sized (about 12mm IIRC), you can make a thin wedge-shaped block to stick on the side of the cavity over the barrel hole so you get a surface that’s at 90° to the barrel, and drill a hole through it. Makes it a lot easier to fit the barrel jack in place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Simon Barden

I don’t know of anyone who use springs for a soapbar bass pickup mounting direct to the body.

---

I am curious about this. I have used springs on j-bass pickups which have four screws, similar to soap bars. It seemed to me that they worked quite well since the four screws made it possible to adjust the pickup height to be slightly higher on the treble side than the bass side, and to adjust the yaw to be parallel with the strings. Why do you think no one uses the springs?

The place I have been less happy with springs is for two-screw humbuckers where I sometimes get a bit of a yaw problem that foam would probably cure.

BTW, your post also made me realize that I have a number of guitars/basses over 20 years old. Neoprene may be better. EPS foam disintegrates much faster and is what came with my DiMarzios.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Simon Barden

The kits with the barrel jacks are very badly made with respect to the barrel mounting. But the thin at the edges body shape normally means that a standard jack+plate fitting won’t work.

On the real thing, the control cavity is routed so there’s a flat edge to screw the barrel nut to. On the kits it’s at a significant angle. If you have a drill that’s barrel-sized (about 12mm IIRC), you can make a thin wedge-shaped block to stick on the side of the cavity over the barrel hole so you get a surface that’s at 90° to the barrel, and drill a hole through it. Makes it a lot easier to fit the barrel jack in place.

---

It may be too thin for this as Simon suggested, but if the body width is big enough for a "football" jack plate, it might be worth just swapping out the barrel jack and putting in a football jack plate and a Puretone open frame jack. You'd need to increase the size of the hole a little, but that is pretty easy to do if you have a step drill bit. I really dislike barrel jacks, which have an annoying tendency to break. I have had even good ones, like Switchcrafts, develop connection issues. The Puretone jacks are thinner than standard switchcraft open frame jacks, so the hole might not need to be that much bigger than it is now.

Thanks for the advice guys. More new options to explore... Neoprene rather than spring sounds easier than struggling with aligning springs and screws. I'll need to see what thickness I need once I've fitted the neck and bridge.
When I built I the TL copy, I came across a resource called the 'Fender University'. This was really great - gave me string heights over the fretboard and string to PU clearance for my TL. What should the nominal PU to string clearance be for a IB-4?

Whatever you want, just not to close so the strings buzz against it. Humbuckers with the magnet at the base have much less magnetic pull on the strings than single coils with magnets as pole pieces like P-bass and J-bass pickups.

The bridge will normally need to be nearer the strings than the neck pickup to balance the output levels, though by how much depends on how many more turns there are on the bridge pickup coils than the neck ones.

I have a dislike for any set action height and clearance values. The action heights and relief values the manufacturers give are always unplayable for me.

Pickup height can vary the tone and output by quite a lot, so always experiment. Which is why you never want to just set to a given figure and forget. The kit pickups haven't got adjustable pole-pieces, so you may want to angle the pickup height-wise to get a more balanced sound, normally with the treble side higher than the bass. Thicker strings create more output, so naturally the bass strings give a bit more output.

Thanks again guys!

Hi All
Finally back on my IB-4 build after a break due to holidays - and having a new kitchen fitted... I think I've finally solved the output jack issue, having filled and redrilled the original hole on the body centre line (it wasn't originally) and sourced a black oval mounting plate.
Quick question on wiring. I'm using the diagram for the IB-5 as this has the same pups / controls as my bass. The 'unused' terminal on both volume controls is shown bent onto the control body - but it isn't shown as a solder joint. Should this terminal be grounded?
Thanks for any advice!
All the Best
Nigel

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NigeS

... The 'unused' terminal on both volume controls is shown bent onto the control body - but it isn't shown as a solder joint. Should this terminal be grounded?
Thanks for any advice!
All the Best
Nigel

---

Hi Nigel, yes they should be soldered to the back of the pot.

Thanks, Trevor!
Cheers!
Nigel

Good Afternoon Fellow Builders!
I've made some progress this week. Pups fitted and wiring completed, then bridge and neck fitted. I bought a speed winder that certainly saves the wrist and fingers and strung the bass. Tuning has settled down really quickly (it took weeks on my six string build - and intonation is pretty spot on straight from the box. Only 1 string to weak.
So - I borrowed an amp to see if I have a bass - but nothing...
No hum (good), but also as far as I can tell no output. I've wired guitars before with no issues, so I'm puzzled. I have a multimeter, but no oscilloscope. What should the resistance (impedance) be between the hot output and ground? Are there any other tests I should do?
Any suggestions gratefully received as usual!
Thanks
Nigel

Not sure what you used for a wiring chart, but it should be like this one:

Attachment 45195

I think this should be right for yours: Two tones, two volumes, no switches.

I took the diagram from a German source but it's pretty clear if you remember that "Masse" means ground/earth. The wire that says it goes to "Saitenerdung" is the ground/earth wire for the bridge. "Hot" is exactly what you'd think ;-)

First thing to do: See if the way you wired the bass looks like this.
Second thing to do, turn the volume pots all the way up and see if that makes a difference. If not, turn them all the way down to see if you hear the bass (you would not be the first person to wire it backwards).

If the hot leads from the pots go correctly to the pots, and the hot leads go from the pots to the hot on the jack, then the problem is may be with the ground wire going to the jack.

Since you are hearing nothing from either pickup, the next thing to check is the jack. Could be no ground to the jack. Could be hot wire and ground wire are reversed on the jack.

You may want to take some pics and post them. Sometimes folks here can see where the wiring might be off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NigeS

Good Afternoon Fellow Builders!
,,,
So - I borrowed an amp to see if I have a bass - but nothing...
No hum (good), but also as far as I can tell no output. I've wired guitars before with no issues, so I'm puzzled. I have a multimeter, but no oscilloscope. What should the resistance (impedance) be between the hot output and ground? Are there any other tests I should do?
Any suggestions gratefully received as usual!
Thanks
Nigel

---

Hi Nigel,

I had a possibly similar issue with my TB-4. Those pups had a hot wire and ground (bare and green) wires. The green wire part was not grounded as I had accidently trimmed it! And No sound.

For my TB-4, with the volumes on 10, I get a resistance of about 7 300 ohms. This is from the end of a lead plugged into the jack socket.

I would also test the hot to ground from the pups, the hot tab of the volume pots, tone pots and jack plug.

Thanks for the advice, guys!
Some wiring mods and I now have sound - sounds great. I think the problem may have been shorting between the pot terminals and the conductive coated cavity. I've now got washers to prevent this and will fit tomorrow...
Nigel

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NigeS

...I think the problem may have been shorting between the pot terminals and the conductive coated cavity....

---

That would definitely do it. Glad you have it sorted out.

Finally finished... 14 coats of TruOil on the body, wiring sorted (thanks guys!), new black Rotosound strings and new Getoh machine heads (don't ask...). Checked out by my brother who plays bass and approved. String heights etc checked against his recently professionally serviced commercial bass and all good. All ready for delivery to my daughter on Saturday.
BTW - if you're in the UK I recommend Gear4music for guitar bits. Machine heads ordered 2,30pm Sunday, delivered 1pm the next day!...
Attachment 45214

BTW - superb sustain and intonation spot on!
Thanks for the help, guys!

Looks great! Glad you have it sounding and working the way you wanted. The Gotoh tuners are a great upgrade. I have several sets of Gotoh tuners for guitar and bass, including a set on a guitar I have had since 1985 that work perfectly. My Gotoh bass tuners are much better than the OEM ones on my mid-'70s Fender bass. I don't think you can go wrong with them.

It's also very cool that this will be a gift to your daughter. I did a guitar for mine a couple of years ago...and there are a few things I'd like to tweak...but she loves it and won't let me touch it.

BTW, although I am not in the UK, I have only heard good things about Gear4Music from UK members. Also, it comes up pretty frequently in my searchers for parts that are hard to find. Wish it were here.

+1 for looks great. I love the natural colours!

Thanks for the comments, guys!
I'm pleased to report that my daughter was delighted with it and loves the sound and action.
That's 2 down and no more planned...
It doesn't really show in the photo due to the sun shadow, but the back strap pin is where you expect - central in the body. The neck end pin is on the back of the horn, so that the line of the body is undisturbed...
Reason it took me so long to finish - ages spent thinking about how to resolve problems. Like the custom fitted oval plate to mount the jack. Re-drilling, metal bashing and more painting...
Next side project - cosmetic restoration of a Peavey 30W combo I bought to give me something to play the bass through. Works fine, but it's filthy. so I'll strip it down, give the case a thorough clean then reassemble. May keep just in case or sell for more than the £15 I paid for it...

Thanks, Trevor
I always wanted a natural Ash body, but on some of the Pitbull pics the different planks were obvious. I asked them to select a body with closely matched grain and they did it! Great job from Pitbull!

Would be great to have posts about your amp restoration project. I may do the same. I have an on-again-off-again speaker cab build that I plan to get back to once I finish the guitar and bass I have stared...

In any case there are few things nicer than having your kid play an instrument you made for them. Nicely done in all respects!