Maybe a fake of a fake?

Since a genuine Gibson Mudbucker seems to be very elusive to find (which kinda surprises me, every man and his dog seem to swap them out of the ES0), but a Korean company makes one that looks the same with pretty much the same specs.

I bought one of these from a Chinese vendor, and I suspect it's a Chinese copy of the Korean copy. There was no label on the back as shown in the picture for the ad. the chord doesn't come through a hole in the back of the pickup like the picture on the add shows, and the output value is supposed to be 29.7K +/- 10%.

There are just a bare earth wire and a hot wire. Am I correct in assuming that the resistance through these two should be 29.7k, or close to? I was getting about 0.5k

Well, 500 ohms is next to nothing in terms of winding. Sounds like something is very wrong with it indeed. If it's a proper copy of a mudbucker, then yes, you should be able to measure almost 30k ohms. Even if it's a standard pickup in a mudbucker cover you should be getting at least 6k ohms or so.

Can you return it? Not easy I know, but sending them a pic with 500 ohms reading on the meter should prompt some replacement action if they are genuine.

Any link to the Chinese website?

What about ordering the "original copy" :confused: from the Korean company?

I concur with Simon that there is something wrong, like a broken coil wire.

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Originally Posted by McCreed

What about ordering the "original copy" :confused: from the Korean company?

I concur with Simon that there is something wrong, like a broken coil wire.

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Couldn't find anywhere on their site to buy direct from, nor a list of distributors. I will try another vendor. As for a broken coil wire, I'd have thought that would put the resistance up rather than down. All in all it's kinda weird. luckily the pups are not all that expensive.

Yes, a broken coil wire would give an open circuit. All I can think of is that either they’ve used just a few turns of wire, or the ‘insulation’ material on the wire is semi-conductive, so the overall resistance has dropped significantly.

You may as well open it up to see inside.

Artec do a low-cost mudbucker-style pickup. Maybe that’s what you thought you were getting?

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

Yes, a broken coil wire would give an open circuit. All I can think of is that either they’ve used just a few turns of wire, or the ‘insulation’ material on the wire is semi-conductive, so the overall resistance has dropped significantly.

You may as well open it up to see inside.

Artec do a low-cost mudbucker-style pickup. Maybe that’s what you thought you were getting?

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Yes, It was "supposed" to be an Artec, but the genuine article is a0 suposed to be 29.7k +/- 10% and has a label on the back with the model number . neither was as it should be. Reviews suggest that the Artec pup sounds very similar to the Gibson "mudbucker".

Being an inquisitive sort I'm way ahead of you and had a butchers inside. I checked both coils, and using another multi meter (I was a bit unsure about the readings I was getting), and I was getting 0.6k per coil. When I connected to a bare end and tried it against the exterior of the coil where it was shiny and not covered in wax. There was no continuity. the wire used is very fine, and *if* it's as many winds as it seems, the values I'm getting are a bit puzzling. I'll unravel one of the coils and see I guess. I might look up what combinations of diameter and length should get to 15k ... not sure, is a humbucker wired in series or parallel?

For almost 30k, I'm pretty sure you'd be looking at 44AWG. Humbucker coils are normally connected in series, and would be here, though they can be connected in parallel and still be humbucking.

It's strange that you get 0.6k per coil but a similar reading for the whole pickup. You'd expect 1.2k or so if the coil readings were true.

I'm just wondering if there's an issue with the pickup lead itself, and a partial short in that is driving the low readings.

I think it must be an issue with the wire used in the windings, I suspect much as you hinted before, there was an issue with the coating on the wire not being fully insulating. BTW with the same meter I got 600ohms per coil also gave 1.2k for the two together.

Being not only inquisitive, I'm also apparently a masochist. I unwound one of the coils and counted the windings. It came out at approximately 4400. I don't have a mic, but calipers measure it as 0.15mm for the thickness of the wire.

Insulation on it will be some of that diameter.

Being that thin I'd have thought it would be quite resistive.

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As for a broken coil wire, I'd have thought that would put the resistance up rather than down.

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Yes, a broken coil wire would give an open circuit.

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I must be confused. Two times I have fixed a single coil pickup, that the coil wire was broken away from where it is soldered to the lead on the bottom bobbin. I don't recall them reading a higher DCR than they were supposed to. IIRC both read 0 ohms.
Am I imagining that, or is it different in a humbucker? Please explain.

Sincerely,
Electronically Challenged

Well, looking up AWG tables gives a diameter of 0.15mm as probably 34 or 35 AWG.

Interestingly, if you assume an average 6" length per wind (the table I used only had inches), then 4400 winds is about 2200 feet. That equates to a resistance of 272ohms per 1000 feet, which is basically the 34 AWG wire range.

So I would guess they have used 34 AWG wire to wind it, which will definitely give some output from the pickup with 4400 turns per coil, but certainly not the output that 30k would have given if that was 44 AWG. From 'resistance per 1000 feet' tables, 15k per coil would indicate 12700 windings (which is a lot!). A typical standard guitar humbucker has around 5000 windings per coil.

Less windings = less output and also less inductance, which moves the resonant peak higher and reduces mids and increases treble.

So it will probably sound relatively quiet and clear.

But it does seem like someone picked up the wrong reel of wire for these particular pickups.

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Originally Posted by McCreed

I must be confused. Two times I have fixed a single coil pickup, that the coil wire was broken away from where it is soldered to the lead on the bottom bobbin. I don't recall them reading a higher DCR than they were supposed to. IIRC both read 0 ohms.
Am I imagining that, or is it different in a humbucker? Please explain.

Sincerely,
Electronically Challenged

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You must be confusing an open circuit/overload reading with a short/circuit 0 ohms reading. If the wire has broken away, how can you have a circuit? And if there's no circuit, you've got an infinite resistance reading. I don't know exactly where you were measuring across, but if you were measuring across the min lead connection solder joints on the pickup, you would have got an open circuit reading.

Now if someone had been passing sufficient voltage/current through the coil to burn the insulation off, then you could get a near 0 ohms reading and no output, but that is very far from a broken wire and very unlikely to ever happen short of extreme stupidity like trying to plug the guitar lead into the mains.

From what I can gather, the mudbuckers used 42awg. , i think that's about 5.5 ohms / m

Well, the reason for using thinner wire is to get more turns on in the same space, but it would appear Gibson didn't.

Using feet again, at an average 1.659 ohms per foot resistance, then 15k ohms would require about 9000 feet of wire or 18,000 turns per coil! (Maybe slightly less as the length per turn increases as the effective coil radius goes up as the wire gets wound on). That's about double the number of turns on a P90. I can see from photos that there's a lot of wire there!

So with a real one (or good copy) you are going to get an awful lot of output, with almost no treble, all bass and mid. Instant overdrive into most amps unless you turn the bass's volume control down. The Artec pickups also use ceramic, not alnico magnets like Gibson did, which given 42AWG wire wound to 30k overall, would give even more output!

well I think the the point of Cliff throwing a mudbucker in there was how it handles distortion. I believe the lack of treble is why they are referred to as "mud"buckers ;) .

Well, your current pickup will sound a long way from that!

Well yeh! Especially considering one coil is in the bin in 100 wind pieces ;) . I'll get a few thousand meters of 42 awg, wind it on and see where we end up on that coil. If all goes well I'll do the other coil. <shrug> I have the frame, I don't think I have much to loose by giving rewinding a crack.

If the rewind goes well, then I’d suggest getting some alnico magnets as well.

Here’s a documented rebuild of an Artec pickup. https://music-electronics-forum.com/...eb-0+mudbucker

(I’ve only partially read it so I hope it makes sense)

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Originally Posted by Simon Barden

If the rewind goes well, then I’d suggest getting some alnico magnets as well.

Here’s a documented rebuild of an Artec pickup. https://music-electronics-forum.com/...eb-0+mudbucker

(I’ve only partially read it so I hope it makes sense)

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Thanx! I just hope I can disassemble that part :o

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You must be confusing an open circuit/overload reading with a short/circuit 0 ohms reading. And if there's no circuit, you've got an infinite resistance reading.

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Simon, you are correct! I measured a leftover PBG TL neck pickup today after intentionally snipping the coil wire and it is "O.L." that my DMM displays. A digital "zero" and "O" look the same and apparently all I remembered was the shape! Makes sense now. Thanks.

I did reattach the coil wire afterward in case I ever need a cheap pickup for someone.

Ye cannae change the laws of physics, Captain...

I read the thread you linked Simon. I won't be doing that. the whole point of a mudbucker is to be muddy. He's hot rodded it to be "improved" . I did notice however another difference that suggests something dodgy was going on. The pics of his pickup had 4 magnets as stock. Mine seems to be missing a couple! I will probably see about changing the mags, but I don't want to spend more money than it would cost to just buy another one from another vendor.

Well, it's wound with the wrong wire, got a different baseplate and different magnets, so it probably isn't an Artec at all.

You may be better off trying to buy a real one as they aren't that expensive. However the Artec listed Australian distributor's website doesn't exist any more, so finding authorised retailers isn't easy. But if you can find one on Amazon, then at least you can easily return it if it's another fake.