@ Fretty, Andrew, Warren and Frankie
Thanks guys, means a lot.
SoundCloud Demo shortly.
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@ Fretty, Andrew, Warren and Frankie
Thanks guys, means a lot.
SoundCloud Demo shortly.
That looks awesome Robin. really nice
Thanks so much Tony
Nice one Rob. That has turned out an absolute treat. Well done.
Thanks Craig. I really enjoyed this build.
It's all about the build, that's why we all want to do another one. Great work. Has inspired me to hop into that scratch build.
Thanks JB, whenever I finish a guitar I think that will do. But then something else takes my fancy and before I know it I start researching for the next one.
GAS, its a glorious obsession. lol.
i was right all along!!Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenwashie
Haha Frankie, I just got lucky this time.
Like JB says, what you have done is inspiring. I need to redraw my neck through Baritone plan and sort out the fiddly details for the neck break angle, headstock angle and so forth. I'm not sure it will finish up anywhere near as good as this but all I can do keep at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by robin
Mate, I'm sure it will turn out fine. Building your own neck is a level up from what I am capable of, so good on you for giving it a try.
I intend to try a neck some day, but its pretty daunting. The only way to find out is by doing I suppose. Good luck.
I've a test neck blank underway at the moment, but I am having some issues with squareness. There's something not quite right with my plane technique it seems. I will get it fixed up and see if I can salvage it to do the tricky bit, the scarf joint for the head stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by robin
good work Frankie, also on a scratch neck helps to route the truss rod channel early before you cut the tapered sides of the neck. You need a square edge to run the router for the truss rod channel
Sorry Westy for thread jacking - you seem to attract them mate haha
Its currently a (Mostly) square 75mm x 25mm x 600mm long three slice blank Wokks. Won't be trying to rout/cut or anything until I'm satisfied that its actually fully square. Might need to find a mate with a Jointer.Quote:
Originally Posted by wokkaboy
Ey Robin, the result is awesome, it's a stunning guitar. The next I think it would be listening to her, sure it sounds great too and the intonations problema that you refer, I'm sure that will not be appreciated.
Good job!
Hey, no probs Warren, you were sharing tips and knowledge about making a neck. That's not thread jacking, that's research!!Quote:
Originally Posted by wokkaboy
Hi Antonio, thank you very much for the complement. I did a quick demo recording here
http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au...light=acoustic
As it turns out the intonation problems aren't quite solved yet, but before I do any more work I will leave it for a week or two so she can settle in a bit. No point making changes now if there will be further movement in the next few weeks.
Cheers mate
rob
Beyond cool, for a test bed it makes an awesome guitar.
Nice work with the saddle.
Did you use acoustic or electric strings on it?
Thanks Stan. But I think I might have screwed up the saddle a bit as the intonation has gone a bit off. It WAS nearly perfect but now not so much. I'lll use her for the next week or so and let her settle in a bit and see how she goes, but I think I might have made bearing surface a bit thin and the strings might have cut in a bit. But now I know a bit more about what I'm doing it should be no problem to cut another saddle. I have a spare.
Talking about strings, I used regular D'Addario Super Light electric strings. Wound EAD and plain GBe.
I've noticed that a lot of acoustic saddles often have little or no compensation, or just a small compensated part. Not sure how that ties in with what you have.
Interesting about the strings, they sound quite good.
I like the way you've put the logo on the body, in fact a few ideas I want to steal, nice job
When I first put her together I had a plain uncompensated saddle but the tuning was not real good. Its fine for about 5 frets but from there on it got pretty ugly. I have read that like most fretted instruments guitar tuning is a compromise over the fretboard.
I guess that a lot of acoustic guitarists play more open chords than I am used to, so concentrate the tuning to that region of the fretboard. Being exclusively and electric player to date I play chords anywhere from open to the 10th or 12th fret making a compensated saddle fairly crucial. But like an acoustic guitar mine does sound best when you hear the chiming of new strings in the open chords. So maybe I might have to compromise my playing and not compromise the guitar.
Logo position was a no brainer Stan. I only have black waterslide decals and they would not show up on the Walnut stain of the headstock. The only place left was the body of the guitar. I thought it looked pretty cool, so there it stayed.
It's going to be worth trying out some different string types as you get round to changing strings. I'd certainly go a bit heavier than your .009"s and at least try .010"s. Also try fitting acoustic strings. There's a reason they don't fit electric guitar strings to acoustics; they just sound so much thinner.
I suggest that you try out different string types and thicknesses, as it's all about matching the string characteristics to your guitar characteristics for the best sounding results. You may find that light electric strings sound best on it, or it may sound better with slightly heavier phosphor bronze strings. You may even find that the intonation improves by changing string type or thickness (though it could also be made worse). It's going to cost a few dollars to experiment, but I think it would be worthwhile to do. It is a very nice looking guitar indeed and deserves every chance to sound its best.
Thanks Simon.
I buy the .009's in bulk so had a few sets laying around so I thought I'd try them first. I'm a bit of a wuss when it comes to strings and like a light gauge, but might give some heavier ones a try. Not sure I want to go to acoustic strings as I think they only have 2 plain strings which will need a different compensated saddle. But I'll never say never.
I know what you mean about the 009's sounding thin, but the guitar will never be used as a solo guitar (as in there will always be other guitars playing) so my thinking was that the lighter strings would help cut through the mix. I am yet to seriously try any EQ or Amp Sims so that will be another avenue to thicken it up a bit.
Thanks for your input mate, you know heaps more about this stuff than me, and I appreciate the help.
We're all still learning as we go along, me especially. But sometimes it's good to do some experimenting yourself, rather than just listen to other peoples opinions (which are often learnt from others and so-on). Then you will actually know what happens when you change string gauges and types, rather than just think you know.
I think I've seen a set of acoustic 0.010"s that come with a plain third. Or you can just make your own hybrid set up with a third from an electric set. Unless they are coated strings, then there's no basic difference between electric and acoustic plain strings - just the wound ones.
Is your intonation problem with the strings going flat or sharp up as you go up the neck? Or is it a mixture?
Hey Simon, it seems to be varying degrees of sharp on all strings. Which I didn't notice when I first strung it up.
I am pretty sure that the saddle is being dragged forward a tiny fraction in the saddle slot when I bring the stings up to tension, shortening the string by the barest fraction. I presume that the wound strings are biting into the bone saddle and tilting it forward. The problem is being exacerbated by the piezo pickup effectively rising the floor level of the slot allowing the saddle to tilt slightly.
I will remove the saddle and inspect it for any obvious nicks etc that could catch on the strings. Also I have not used any lube on the saddle so I will try some graphite as its all I've got at present. Last resort will be to see if I can squeeze a tiny sliver of veneer into the front of the slot forcing the saddle back a fraction.
As DB's signature says "There is always a workaround for glitches, mistakes and other Guitar building gremlins....."
A very small amount won't make any significant difference to the intonation. If it's that bad, then you'll probably need a couple of mm.
Thicker strings might help, but I've never noticed any significant change in intonation when swapping from .012"s to .011"s (or vice versa) on an acoustic.
If the saddle isn't sitting up straight in its slot, then you really need to make a wider saddle that fits better, rather than bodge it. Sounds like you need to make it all move back as far as you can.
One fix might be to get a wider bone blank. then create a dog-leg structure (from the side), so there's a bit that fits in the slot, then it sets back away from the neck, then goes upright again. You'd need a good fit in the slot so it doesn't tip back, but it might provide the extra distance you need.
Otherwise it's time to take the bridge off, repair the finish on the body, and then move the bridge back a bit. You'd have to try and rig up a temporary saddle. maybe just for one string, to work out how far back it needs to move. Once it's off, you could buy or make a bridge like on some Takamines, where the strings are anchored at the back of the bridge, not in pegholes through the body, then you can clamp the bridge in place and move it around to find the correct position for it when the strings are on. The bridge should still cover any holes drilled, or if you stick with the same bridge but just move it, you could elongate the existing holes backwards.
It's going to be heartbreaking work to start with, but if it gives you a better guitar at the end, it will be worth all the effort.
OMG that sound awesome! I'm sure that the intonations problems that are refered by you are still there, I'm sure they are there, but I swear that nothoing can be noticed, I suppose that if you use a tuner then you can notice them, but at the ears of a common mortal it sounds to glory, I really tell you that nothing is appreciated, it's only heard a good guitar that sounds even better, nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by robin
Now I really can say: congratulations!, it's sounds more than good, it's awesome, excellent.
Unfortunately, once known, it can't be un-known, and it's going to haunt Robin until he can fix it. It would do that to me.
Hey Robin awesome build mate. What was the neck from?
@Antonio,
Thanks mate. It sounds OK playing open chords (like in the Demo) but starts having intonation problems from about the 5th fret on. Not to worry, with Simon's help I'm sure I can overcome. lol.
@Nick,
Thanks mate. The neck is a PBG bolt-on Gibson neck. I opted for some Grover Tuners (also from PBG) at the same time. Adam has a good deal with those if purchased in conjunction with kit, body or neck. Well worth the extra $$s.
@Simon,
"Once known, it can't be un-known" lol. That's me all over. Until I get it fixed I will never be happy.
Removing the Bridge is an ABSOLUTE last resort. I will re-visit the current saddle and see what can be done, maybe there is a smidge of adjustment to be made with the the compensation cuts, but most likely an off-set saddle might be the easiest solution.
I think for the short term I might just stick to open chords and enjoy it for a bit, regroup and then try a full frontal assault later on. But there is no way I will be happy until she is intonated properly.
Cheers guys
rob
I get like that sometimes, but i find my muddling tends to make the situation worse. I have finally, after years, managed to stop myself from frustrated tinkering and just walk away from such issues until I am in the right head space to look at them properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
@Robin i think you're best to do as you've planned and enjoy it as is and slowly analyse what needs to happen next, its not going to go anywhere and there's no real rush eh?
Yep, spot on Frankie. I doubt I'll do much more on her (other than tinker) before Christmas. I might enjoy a bit of a break and just get used to playing open chords for a change. lol.
But by the same token my policy has always been that my guitars stand or fall by how they play, not by how they look or even how they sound. If I don't enjoy playing a guitar then I won't play it and then its no more than a wall hanging, and there is no way that #14 is going to be my first wall hanging. Lol.
cheers mate.
Yes, take your time and explore all the other possibilities first. If the bridge did have to come off, you could always make your own new bridge, but make it larger, so that it would cover up all the area currently covered by the current bridge, plus a bit more towards the rear. That would save having to refinish the top.
Rather than move the bridge back, one other solution would be to move the neck forwards a bit. It would mean filling in the existing holes in the neck, and redrilling once you had discovered the correct location for the neck - but it's nothing that others haven't done before. The position of the last two screw holes right in the pocket might mean that they would now be too close to the end of the neck if that was moved forwards a bit, and the neck might split at the end. So this might mean drilling some new screw holes in the body - which in itself causes you some problems. You could try and find a suitable neck plate (or make one) that could cover up the old holes if you went down this route. Or you could even simply drill two more screw holes and add cup inserts a bit further away from the end of the neck, and glue in two dummy screws to the existing (now-unused) sockets to give you the appearance of a six bolt neck, whilst actually it still being a four-bolt neck.
You could use slivers of veneer at the end of the pocket to fill any gap left. You could clamp the neck in place whilst fitting the top and bottom E strings, then keep adding more slivers of veneer until both the E strings were correctly intonated up to the 12th fret. Then glue the veneer slivers in place, drill the neck and put it all back together. With the right veneer choice (e.g. alternating light/dark slivers), it could look like a simple decorative adornment.
Thanks Simon, I hope I don't have to go down some of the roads you mentioned, but its good to know that there are lots of options yet unexplored.
I'm hoping that the solution may be tweaking the saddle, but as you said, no rush.
Just throwing out some ideas while I remember!
From what you have said, it might be worth while making a compensated saddle.
You can also overcome some of the intonation problems with a compensated nut, but thatmight cause you to have a brain attack as they are a bit of a mind mend to get right :D
Strings can make a massive difference. I use Tomastik Infeld on my semi Acoustic/electric hybrids..
Not the cheapest string but they do last at least three times longer than ordinary phos bronze strings.
My last build has a set of Tomastik George Benson Jazzies, but at $60 a set that might cause heart palpations...
With the saddle, I should add you dont want it to be overly tight in the slot when using an undersaddle piezo.
There needs to be a bit of slack to ensure enough downward pressure on the piezo, otherwise you wont get the full effect.
Typically this would be the low E not having the same volume as the other bottom end strings.
Now for a pro tip :P
When working out the saddle slot position, I glue the bridge on then string up.
Before putting any tension on the strings I slide a brass bar the same thickness as the saddle and tune up to pitch.
Then it is a matter of moving the bar so as to get each string intonated, or as close as possible.
Mark the front face of the bars position onto the saddle.
Then, after de stringing, I place my premade routing jig over the bridge (essentially a chunk of MDF with the bridge shape cut out) then grab the trusty Dremel with router attachment and set it up with a guide fence so the bit will cut the slot in the correct position.
This should give you a fairly close intonation, which can be adjusted by compensating the saddle where the strings sit. (I will dig out a compensated saddle tomorrow and take a pic)
Finally, I have yet to come across an acoustic guitar with perfect intonation.... very close, but never perfect.
I'm still a newbie in the world of guitar building, but by what I have already learned I think that's the best attitude, relax and taking it easy, if you give yourself time to think things twice, you always find an apropiate solution for each problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenWashie
@DB,
Thanks for the input Phil.
I didn’t know that strings made that much of a difference. Being a real cheapskate I never change my strings as often as I should.
I would guess that I have tensioned and loosened the D’Addarios more than a dozen times whilst cutting the nut and shaping the saddle. It always takes me quite a few goes to get the nut right and as it was my first attempt at making a compensated bone saddle a lot of trial and error was involved.
I can remember that I was pretty chuffed when I tensioned up the strings for the first time on the un-compensated saddle as the e and D strings were pretty spot on, intonation wise. Seeing as I’m using standard electric strings (with 3 unwound strings) the e and D are the shortest and need the least compensation. Now even these strings cannot be intonated properly and I just assumed that I had screwed up somewhere.
I will definitely put on a new set of strings before I do anything else and see if that makes a difference. You might have just saved me a load of heart-ache.
Thanks Phil, Simon and everybody else for all the help and encouragement.
Cheers guys
rob
For a first attempt, I would be more than happy with the results...
It is not the end of this story yet. Even if you do end up having to re do the bridge you have learned a lot! and next time my bet is you will nail it :D
Thanks Phil. You have more confidence in my ability than I do myself.
I will be a bit busy for most of this week helping a mate so I doubt that I will have much time to spend on the guitar, but I'm not giving up just yet.
Thanks for the encouragement mate
rob