NON-PBG - LP Build Diary for DIY Guitars GLP-40BBK

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

Hi Alkay, yes I agree think it's worth sanding back the neck and re-staining. Looks like there is tru oil on the neck ?
Yes, 9 coats of Tru-oil as well. I think its just mainly the sides of the headstock that look the least appealing, although the spalted front has some over sanding. Maybe I could just re-stain the sides, top and front of spalted head stock?
The rest of the neck from the head stock down to the neck heel is super super smooth. (I know not to apply TO on the flat surface that bolts into the neck pocket).

While you are doing that be a good chance to shape the top of the headstock.
I watched the PBG video on how to do this. I guess I should learn this while it's drying. I'll probably do it manually rather than using my jigsaw. I'll sketch some designs. I know not to take any wood off near the machine heads, just the top.

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Thanks wokkaboy,

Please let me know what you think?

Cheers,

Alkay.

Hi Alkay, sure you should be able to patch up the lighter stained areas but you risk having trouble matching the stain colour. See how you go. You will obviously have to remove the tru oil on those parts. If the patch up doesn't work that well you may have to sand it all back and start again.
Up to you if you shape the headstock but to me it will personalise your build and get rid of that butt ugly square top !

Stain in the neck pocket and neck heel is only a problem for set (glued) necks, as this is a bolt on it won't make any difference.

Good luck

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

Hi Alkay, sure you should be able to patch up the lighter stained areas but you risk having trouble matching the stain colour. See how you go. You will obviously have to remove the tru oil on those parts. If the patch up doesn't work that well you may have to sand it all back and start again.
Up to you if you shape the headstock but to me it will personalise your build and get rid of that butt ugly square top !

Stain in the neck pocket and neck heel is only a problem for set (glued) necks, as this is a bolt on it won't make any difference.

Good luck

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Thanks wokkaboy,
I'll try patching it up first before a full sand back.
I'm going to give the head stock shaping a go too. I just made a cardboard sketch template to try some designs.

I'll post again soon when I'm ready to solder.

Cheers,

Alkay.

no worries Alkay, the G type headstocks are the easiest to shape as you only need to shape the top.

Good luck with the patchup see how it goes

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

no worries Alkay, the G type headstocks are the easiest to shape as you only need to shape the top.

Good luck with the patchup see how it goes

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Hi wokkaboy,

Do you have a printable G headstock template you are able to share?

Hi Alkay, it's not a very good image but I usually just pencil on a similar moustache shape, doesn't have to be perfect with a G type headstock.
Or come up with something original :)

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

Hi Alkay, it's not a very good image but I usually just pencil on a similar moustache shape, doesn't have to be perfect with a G type headstock.
Or come up with something original :)

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ok cool, thats wokkaboy.

I did a few sketches last night. Here's the one I come up with I like the most.

It's only a concept so if I go with that I'll make the template more precise.

Attachment 12328

no worries Alkay, as you say have a play around with shapes doesn't have to be the exact G type shape

You will probably find the shape will be slightly different to your template anyway as you will be sick of sanding and shaping hahha

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

no worries Alkay, as you say have a play around with shapes doesn't have to be the exact G type shape

You will probably find the shape will be slightly different to your template anyway as you will be sick of sanding and shaping hahha

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haha I can almost guarantee that one. That shape above has probably been done. With so many diy builders around the globe I'm sure there is no unique headstock shape left for most guitars. But I'll get to something I'm happy with and go with it.

that's it Alkay pretty well every shape has been done before. Some on the forum have done a horizontal S shape and left the corners the same height can work.
Just play around with a shape you like.
Another tip is to sticky tape your template to the headstock and look at it over a few days you may change your mind on a certain shape

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

that's it Alkay pretty well every shape has been done before. Some on the forum have done a horizontal S shape and left the corners the same height can work.
Just play around with a shape you like.
Another tip is to sticky tape your template to the headstock and look at it over a few days you may change your mind on a certain shape

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Thats a good point haha.

I quite like this one....
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=c...IUAeAGuOAcM%3A

yeah that HS shape is cool Alkay, that headstock is more like a PRS headstock is tapered toward the top but should work on your LP shape.
Have a good think about it as once the timber is cut there is rarely an undo button ! haha

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

yeah that HS shape is cool Alkay, that headstock is more like a PRS headstock is tapered toward the top but should work on your LP shape.
Have a good think about it as once the timber is cut there is rarely an undo button ! haha

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Hahaha yeah I know. I'll pick three of my favourites and decide on which...it's a bit hard to put it all back together if I'm not happy with it haha.

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Originally Posted by Alkay

Hahaha yeah I know. I'll pick three of my favourites and decide on which...it's a bit hard to put it all back together if I'm not happy with it haha.

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I think I'll sand the sides top and front of the headstock with 320 or 400 grit because they need work. The rest of the neck I'm really happy with.

Or maybe wet and dry with 1200 so there is less damage? I know what cedar colour ratio I used so I should be able to match it once I am through the TO and back to bare wood.
What do you think?

Hey Alkay sounds like a plan, I'd do that sand back the whole headstock to the neck volute you will get a more even colour rather than patching up bits here and there

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

Hey Alkay sounds like a plan, I'd do that sand back the whole headstock to the neck volute you will get a more even colour rather than patching up bits here and there

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yeah I think so it makes sense.

Cheers for your help.

Alkay.

Hi Guys, been busy with work lately and just had a quick read of some of the dramas you have had.....bummer.

As TO coats are very thin not much effort can strip lots off. Never heard about soaking the paper for any period of time as all I do is wrap a fresh piece around the dry cork block, dip it in some water to lube it up, then lightly, very lightly sand in the direction of the finish which on the top usually means with the grain but on sides is quite often across the grain. The sanding block needs to be dipped in the water fairly often mainly to free up the muck in the grit and also provided a bit of lube on the surface being sanded. Don't forget to use a damp rag to wipe the milky stuff off the surface too as you don't want to re-sand over that muck and risk damaging the finish.

Need to get 8 to 10 good coats down, cure for a week, light wet sand and if you found 1200 was too hungry move up to 1500 to taker less off as all you really want to do is add more shine and smoothness.

Time to add another 6 to 10 coats and do it all over again, as this time it should come up really glassy and appear to have a lot of depth. Add a few more extremely light coats then leave to cure for a bit longer before using 2000 and progress up through the micro mesh pads.

No precise science or method as there are too many variables and only you will know when you think there has been enough top coats done.

I am currently doing a fretless bass neck sealed with CA glue and have delicately sanded that thing many times and still manage to rip through to bare wood. Reckon I am up to about 12th or 13th layers of finish as it takes a bit more finesse to achieve an all over smooth surface. As I said, everything is slightly different and just takes a bit more patience and sometimes a bit more re-application of finish before it becomes just right.

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Originally Posted by wazkelly

Hi Guys, been busy with work lately and just had a quick read of some of the dramas you have had.....bummer.

As TO coats are very thin not much effort can strip lots off. Never heard about soaking the paper for any period of time as all I do is wrap a fresh piece around the dry cork block, dip it in some water to lube it up, then lightly, very lightly sand in the direction of the finish which on the top usually means with the grain but on sides is quite often across the grain. The sanding block needs to be dipped in the water fairly often mainly to free up the muck in the grit and also provided a bit of lube on the surface being sanded. Don't forget to use a damp rag to wipe the milky stuff off the surface too as you don't want to re-sand over that muck and risk damaging the finish.

Need to get 8 to 10 good coats down, cure for a week, light wet sand and if you found 1200 was too hungry move up to 1500 to taker less off as all you really want to do is add more shine and smoothness.

Time to add another 6 to 10 coats and do it all over again, as this time it should come up really glassy and appear to have a lot of depth. Add a few more extremely light coats then leave to cure for a bit longer before using 2000 and progress up through the micro mesh pads.

No precise science or method as there are too many variables and only you will know when you think there has been enough top coats done.

I am currently doing a fretless bass neck sealed with CA glue and have delicately sanded that thing many times and still manage to rip through to bare wood. Reckon I am up to about 12th or 13th layers of finish as it takes a bit more finesse to achieve an all over smooth surface. As I said, everything is slightly different and just takes a bit more patience and sometimes a bit more re-application of finish before it becomes just right.

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Good advice, Thanks wazkelly.

I'm currently applying a few TO coats over the mistake I made before I get to it.

I'll start soldering soon after I paint the PUP cavities with the conductive shielding paint.

It's probably a good idea to mask around the cavities on top of the body to stop any of the black paint getting on the finish?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

Hey Alkay sounds like a plan, I'd do that sand back the whole headstock to the neck volute you will get a more even colour rather than patching up bits here and there

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Hi Wokkaboy,

Thanks for the tips. I have put on a couple of coats of TO and that mistake I made on the side of the body is already allot less noticeable. I'm going to put a couple more coats on and once I'm satisfied with that I'll do the whole body again.

Cheers,
Alkay.

sounds good Alkay, hopefully you have learnt from your mistakes and next build won't need small fix ups !

As DB always says the finish is the most important part of the build !

Your prior question yes always mask when you think any finish may get covered in another product !

If not too late, definitely mask around PUP cavities as the Conductive Shielding Paint can make a mess of the top if not too careful.

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Originally Posted by wazkelly

If not too late, definitely mask around PUP cavities as the Conductive Shielding Paint can make a mess of the top if not too careful.

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Ok thanks wazkelly and wokkaboy,

I have started the TO on the body again. Just one coat.

Q. Apply Conductive Shielding Paint now or should I wait until the end after 8-10 coats, sand back and repeat as you said, then paint all of the cavities including PUP's, control switch and potentiometers for the LP style?

I think wait until the end but when I mask it I will strip off layers of TO when the masking tape is removed. I did work out how to make the masking tape less adhesive. Just wanted to double check before I go and do something I regret.

I read CA glue was a no no for finishing. Is it for quicker curing times?

Thanks for your help so far. I have got some nice headstock designs coming along now too.

Cheers,
Alkay.

If you are applying the conductive shielding paint wth a brush you could get away with not masking at all. Personally if you want to mask I would get some low tack painters tape. It will be very gentle on the TO. I use the light green stuff from BEAR. What were you thinking of finishing with the CA glue? It is used here on various builds all the time.

cheers,
Gav.

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Originally Posted by gavinturner

If you are applying the conductive shielding paint wth a brush you could get away with not masking at all. Personally if you want to mask I would get some low tack painters tape. It will be very gentle on the TO. I use the light green stuff from BEAR. What were you thinking of finishing with the CA glue? It is used here on various builds all the time.

cheers,
Gav.

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Thanks for tip Gav but I think I will mask just to be safe.

With the glue I just remember reading somewhere on the net it wasn't a good idea.

The fretboard on lots of fretless necks are finished here with CA glue to give them strength and shine.

cheers,
Gav.

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Originally Posted by gavinturner

The fretboard on lots of fretless necks are finished here with CA glue to give them strength and shine.

cheers,
Gav.

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Oh ok cool, I'll have a look into them. Something I might consider after a few more practice builds first haha.

Just thought I would give an update and show some of the headstock designs I have come up with.

Attachment 12426

Attachment 12427

Attachment 12428

....and a few more.

Attachment 12429

Headstock shapes look interesting and like one on the left immediately above or very top right in panel showing 8 images.

With CA glue I am using it to finish off a fretless neck and very fiddly indeed plus highly toxic fumes that makes your eyes water, well at least that is how it affected me. Have run out of TO and need to do a touch up spot on one of my axes where top was accidently scorched with a soldering iron. The CA comes up clear and in a small area might be OK but would never recommend over a large area such as a guitar body as it does not dry completely flat and smooth and requires extremely delicate wet sanding to start the polishing process.

Had left things for over a week and last night thought I had it done but on the final 12,000 micro mesh sandings I noticed it was starting to go through around 2nd fret....ARRRGGGHHHH. Another touch up, then another light sand tonight plus apply a bit more to just the whole area of that 2nd fret block hoping it will dry pretty smooth and flat overnight. Looks great all polished up but damn hard to get it all looking perfect and not slightly sand through. Unfortunately those areas will not take the final car polish as too close to the bare wood.

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Originally Posted by wazkelly

Headstock shapes look interesting and like one on the left immediately above or very top right in panel showing 8 images.

With CA glue I am using it to finish off a fretless neck and very fiddly indeed plus highly toxic fumes that makes your eyes water, well at least that is how it affected me. Have run out of TO and need to do a touch up spot on one of my axes where top was accidently scorched with a soldering iron. The CA comes up clear and in a small area might be OK but would never recommend over a large area such as a guitar body as it does not dry completely flat and smooth and requires extremely delicate wet sanding to start the polishing process.

Had left things for over a week and last night thought I had it done but on the final 12,000 micro mesh sandings I noticed it was starting to go through around 2nd fret....ARRRGGGHHHH. Another touch up, then another light sand tonight plus apply a bit more to just the whole area of that 2nd fret block hoping it will dry pretty smooth and flat overnight. Looks great all polished up but damn hard to get it all looking perfect and not slightly sand through. Unfortunately those areas will not take the final car polish as too close to the bare wood.

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Ok thanks for your input wazkelly,

Ouch. That sounds like you have a bit of work to do. I'm sure you will get it sorted. I think I'll wait before I'm going to do the CA and do a few builds first.

12000 micro mesh says allot to me with this build. I'm taking your advice and putting about 10 coats of TO on, 1500 wet and dry sand back and repeat. She's already starting to look very shiny.

The soldering iron, well I won't ask. I just know when I do soldering that's when it turns bad for me. Practice first for me.

Cheers,

Alkay

Ok so I should have done this before I posted those pics. I would be interested in everyone's input on here with the number of choice. It's a personal preference but I would be interested to know.

Attachment 12437

Attachment 12438

Attachment 12439

Attachment 12440

Cheers,

Alkay.

9 & 2 as mentioned before.

Here area couple of shots of the neck after using CA and micro mesh to 12,000 but no polish just yet. You can see the touch up eats away a lot around the affected area and to clean up I will start very lightly with 2,000 wet and then move on to 6,000 then 8,000 up 12,000 micro mesh pads. Requires a lot of patience.
Attachment 12441Attachment 12442

I think 5 looks good and is unique

I vote #4, but perhaps I'm being biased!
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/u...psbtoujhph.jpg

In order of preference...3,5,4,7. :)

I like 3, 4, 5, 7, 8. Ultimately it's your decision Alkay

Definitely 5 for me.

There is no undo button haha.
I like 1, 2, 3, 7.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I really like two and seven. How it turns out will probably be different. It's a first try at this so I'll see hahaha.

Cheers,

Alkay.

2 & 7 are very similar, just a deeper cut on 2 which could make the sharp pointy bit a tad vulnerable and susceptible to accidental breakage.

Hello,
Just thought I would give an update of the shaped headstock after sanding back and applying the stain.

Attachment 12730

I now need to put 11 coats of TO on to match the neck and the back of the headstock coats.

Also, the guitar body now has 22 coats of TO on it. The last coat went on 14/07/16.
Some of you guys are saying wait 1 week or 3 weeks before wet sanding?

Cheers,

Alkay.