Hi McCreed,
These are all over. That’s why my basic idea was to build up more coats and then sand back to flat.
Anyone have any other ideas?
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Hi McCreed,
These are all over. That’s why my basic idea was to build up more coats and then sand back to flat.
Anyone have any other ideas?
Have tried a drop fill method on a few spots that will be covered by the pick guard. Let’s see
Great! Let us know how it works out.Quote:
Have tried a drop fill method on a few spots that will be covered by the pick guard. Let’s see
Drop fill didn’t seem to work that well, also would take along time as I believe it’s something to do with the fabric to wood process that’s created the issue.
I think I am going to try and build up 10-15 more coats and then hit it with 220 grit sand paper. My basic idea is to build it up “high” and level sand it down to flat. It may actually require some more coats then that but I can be hopeful ;)
If those dimples are deep it's going to take more than a few dozen coats of wipe on poly to fill them up to the same level of the rest of the surface. I had a similar problem making a fake walnut veneer dashboard for my MG. I ended up using a can of oil-based clear coat (Cabot's brand) and ignoring the usual rule of "spray light coats to avoid runs" I sprayed a couple of thick coats to the point where it was running then let it dry for a few days before sanding it back with 400 grit first then again with 800 grit before polishing it the same as I would do for acrylic lacquer using a decent rubbing compound and a DA polishing machine. Technically I should have gone to at least 1200 grit before polishing but my DA machine is pretty good and the rubbing compound I use is #$%@ing fantastic.
I could be wrong but the main reason for using wipe on poly on a guitar is to keep the coating as thin as possible so it doesn't interfere with the tone. I think that's more important with hollow-body guitars and if I'm honest even then I reckon the "tone wood" debate is way over-stated with electric guitars using pickups that read a magnetic field and amplify it electronically. You've covered the guitar in glue and material anyway so what difference is it going to make if you use a thick clear coat instead of ultra-thin poly?
Whats your secret??Quote:
Originally Posted by Oby
I just thought of something else. Again I could be wrong but I think when you wipe on poly unless you're waiting a long time between each coat you're probably rubbing most of the last coat off as you apply the new one so it's not actually building up the height. It's not like spraying where each coat is just landing on top of the old one. You're actually rubbing it in when you wipe... I think. Could be wrong. :)
Meguiars Ultimate Compound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakersdozen
Any decent compound does the same job. I've also used Scholl Concepts, Chemical Guys and a few other pro brands but you can get Meguiars in regular retails shops.
The real secret is spending a bit more money on paint and applying lots of coats so I have plenty to sand and rub back. A real pro would take the time to set their spray gun perfectly and reduce the orange peel to save time sanding/polishing. I'm not a real pro. :)
Perfect, that stuff is worth its weight in gold
Honestly, I think it more about practicality. Most people either don't have proper spray equipment, or lack a work area suitable for spraying (even rattle cans). Also, if they're fortunate enough to have the space for spraying but not have a gun and compressor, rattle cans are notoriously susceptible to orange peel.Quote:
I could be wrong but the main reason for using wipe on poly on a guitar is to keep the coating as thin as possible so it doesn't interfere with the tone.
Whilst wipe-on takes many many coats to build up a deep clear coat, it's generally an acceptable trade off to having to level out orange peel or runs.
I am in no way saying you can't get a great finish from rattle cans. I seen some that are unbelievably good (not necessarily mine :p).
I definitely agree. I won't say that wood type has no effect on sustain or some other acoustic properties, but I too think it has been built up as hype more than anything.Quote:
I think that's more important with hollow-body guitars and if I'm honest even then I reckon the "tone wood" debate is way over-stated with electric guitars using pickups that read a magnetic field and amplify it electronically.
As long as you don't mind spending a lot of time sanding and polishing it's dead easy getting a great finish from a rattle can. I wouldn't worry about orange peel because you're doing a lot of sanding anyway. Those dimples would be much deeper than any orange peel yo might get. Plus orange peel is a much bigger problem with acrylic lacquer and nitro. Not so much a problem with enamels which are self-leveling to a certain degree. With the Cabot's stuff I used it didn't have orange peel at all but it was sort of wavy probably because the surface underneath wasn't perfectly smooth as glass. I think your dimple problem is very similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
Btw the fake walnut dashboard is now about 20 years old and it hasn't aged or yellowed at all. Not a scratch or mark anywhere.
Made me think of this vid: https://youtu.be/sYK0XX-nDVIQuote:
Originally Posted by Oby
I recon it is really overrated as are many things but hey, it gives more depth to what we do and can do! It is like religion [emoji23]
I like the use of data, and the way he found (although a little brutal) to test.
I have long thought that sustain is about stiffness rather than mass. Not so much about a body that resonates, but one that isolates the movement of the string to nothing but the string. Seems like basic physics to me.
The tone thing was a little surprising, but really supports the notion that tone is in the electronics and playing style rather than the body style, at least with a solid body.
Interesting too, how at the end of the video he contradicts his own data a bit and talks about feel. I have a fair amount of scientific training, and generally prefer to go with the data....but I have to admit that how the axe looks and feels is part what makes me want to pick it up and play it ...
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I much prefer data and hard evidence too although I grudgingly admit psychology is a science too. Maybe not as accurate as other sciences so it's not as easy to measure. Still the human mind definitely plays a part in everything and it certainly affects what you hear. For that reason I don't completely discount things that might not be having a physical impact but just "all in my mind".
It's like the placebo effect.
In any case it still comes down to the player as far as the audience is concerned. I've seen guys playing mind-blowing stuff on cheap budget guitars. But give me a $5000 custom shop special and it will sound like crap.
I feel that most of the basic sound of the guitar body comes from the bit of wood directly in-between the neck and bridge (one reason that I don't like Strats with huge swimming-pool routs). So cutting away a lot of the body shouldn't make too much difference except to balance. Pickups play a huge part in the amplified sound, but the wood still has a small part to play.
A 'bad' bit of wood can really kill sustain and tone, but luckily most seem to work OK.
Personal opinion but the only thing that makes any difference in sustain is the join between the end of the neck and the corresponding part of the body. Body mass really doesn't make that much difference but a poor join will and there is a simple way to make sure the join is at its best by something that I have done for years but most people here do not. People worry about the position of the neck screw holes that come from the factory and plug and redrill and again in my opinion a waste of time and believe me the hole position on some I have got are really garbage but nothing that cant be fixed. All I ever do with the guitars that needed it was to take the plate and turn over so the upper face is now on the body. Measure the hole with a drill or rule or calipers, what ever you have, clamp the plate in the position you want and drill the hole and the plate will guide the drill. Don't make the hole in the plate any bigger, if necessary just use a drill 1/2mm or 1/64" smaller. The only time you may have to plug is if the original holes appear outside of the neck plate but otherwise forget it. The screws are only there to stop the neck from hitting you in the face when you tighten the strings they do not position the neck or keep it aligned, that is what the pocket does. I also put about a 1/2mm chamfer on the neck base where it makes contact with the body so as it will fully seat on the bottom of the pocket so as to maximise the contact. I then clamp the neck to the body and use the same drill to make a small dimple by hand by twisting the drill in my fingers in the neck so I can use the right sized drill for the neck screws. The screws will have plenty of room for the next process. Assemble the neck and tighten the screws and bring the strings to tune. Loosen the 2 screws that are closest to the bridge, you can loosen them quite a bit as they are basically doing nothing as all the weight is on the other 2. Now just crack the other 2 screws maybe 1/4 of a turn and the end of the neck will now be hard up against the body as it will be draw backwards. Now just tighten the screws and that's it. I have store bought guitars that were in my opinion OK but once I did this the sustain basically almost doubled. Again just opinion but the most important faces to make sure that are in good contact is the end of the neck and its corresponding body part as it maximises contact but is a solid contact that basically makes the 2 pieces of wood as good as a single piece.
@Oby your right, I did about another 12 coats of wipe on with no effect. Maybe some small improvement’s but still a few dimples. I did consider your advise in regards the clear coat, however, I decided to put the guitar together.
I guess the good was is I have learnt a few lessons on the build. Mainly what not to do :), but that’s my process I guess.
I will post some pictures a little later ( maybe the weekend) as I have been busy lately.
I don't think that "process" is exclusive to you!Quote:
I guess the good was is I have learnt a few lessons on the build. Mainly what not to do , but that’s my process I guess.
We all have made (and still make) mistakes, or rather "create learning opportunities".
I've been doing this stuff for a while and I... ahem... learn something with each build :o.