Lol Simon. There's always one in every crowd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
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Lol Simon. There's always one in every crowd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
If it hadn't been him it would have been me Robin...:)Quote:
Originally Posted by robin
Haha. Hi Frankie, OK then, 2 in every crowd
I had a thought with this, recalling your work in the fretless bass build where you put clear epoxy over the board.
It might have been possible to leave the binding noticeably proud of the face and then pour epoxy in to level the front face and protect the finish. that way you'd have preserved (for all eternity) the patina and colour of the wood, but given yourself an edge you could sacrifice to get your binding true and trimmed.
Hey Frankie, I had that same thought myself. But decided against it.
My thought process at the time was that as this is probably going to be a wall hanging it won't get the usual use and abuse that us muso's inflict upon our instruments and will therefore stand the rigors of time. There is something tactile in the character of wood and although seen, that patina could not be felt (and I think Bev will want to) if it were covered by a layer of resin. I probably should have checked with Bev first, but she has left the whole project up to me and I went with a gut feeling.
Although not perfect if inspected closely, I am fairly happy with how its turned out so far. The flaws that are still there would not bother me if it were my guitar, but I have set myself a higher standard for Bev as it means so much to her.
A few before and after shots
Before Attachment 24834 After Attachment 24835
Before Attachment 24836 After Attachment 24837
I painstakingly scraped every glue spot with the blade until I got down to the level of the varnish. Fairly happy with how it turned out.
Cheers for the thought mate,
rob
It was just a thought that struck me, though your point about the tactility of wood is taken.
On the FrankenWashie resurrection I have left the timber raw, though polished up to the max with Micro mesh. Even though it is polished there is a subtle tactile difference between the Vic ash, the merbau, the Matai and the maple of the neck. It feels different under you hands than something coated, painted or oiled.
That's interesting mate, I'm surprised that you can feel that sort of a difference.
I'm sure to a numpty like me it would all feel like, you know.........wood.
I know it’s been a little while since I last updated the thread but I have been slowly making progress with Bev’s guitar, so I thought it was time to post a few more pics and get up to date.
First thing was to level and dress the frets.
For those of you who have not yet attempted dressing frets, it’s fairly easy, but there are a few tools that are really helpful. I have done it without these tools but it is definitely easier (and highly recommended) that you get them if possible. If you plan on making just one guitar (good luck if you can stop at one) it’s best to get Dingobass to do it. That way you know that the job will be done properly, but if you are a masochist like me read on.
Once the neck has been levelled and taped off you grab a thick felt pen and run a line down the length of each fret.
Attachment 25722
Then, using a 12” radius block with 400 grit wet and dry paper, slowly, carefully, and lightly run the block up and down the full length of the neck until you have removed the felt pen from the crown of ALL the frets. You now know that all the frets should be the same height.
Attachment 25723
By now some (or most) of the frets have a flat crown so it’s time to get out the Fret File and re-crown the frets and get rid of the flat spots. Mark each fret with the felt pen as before, but this time you want to leave a very thin line of ink running down the centre of each fret. Be sure to try and leave some ink the full length of each fret. The frets should now be nicely domed. It’s a good idea to check them as well with a Fret Rocker just in case there are some obvious boo boos.
Fret File
Attachment 25724
Fret Rocker
Attachment 25725
Then polish them up with wet and dry paper and finish with 000 then 0000 steel wool. When you’re finished you should have removed all the files marks from the frets and they should be nice and shiny. Being a belt and braces kind of guy I will also use a fretboard protector…… you know, just in case.
Attachment 25726
......
…….. That’s the neck done. It’s one of those jobs that you’ll only know if you’ve done a good job when the guitar is finished. So fingerscrossed.
Attachment 25727
I am usually a devout Tru-Oil man, but seeing as I still had some MinWax Wipe-on Poly left over from my last guitar I used that instead.
The fretboard got about 14 coats of Poly, the neck 7 coats and the headstock the full monty, 21 coats. It has ambered up a bit more than I had hoped, but I don’t mind it. I think it might be getting a bit old and thick. Oh, hang on, I think that’s me.
Fretboard
Attachment 25747
Headstock
Attachment 25748
Next job will be to finish off the body. I have already stained it and applied 21 coats of Poly. It has streaked fairly badly from the wipe-on process so I will have to cut it back a bit.
looks great Robin! with the wipe on poly, do you just wipe against grain so as to not get any on steel frets or just clean them up after?
Hey Guvna, thanks mate.
You got it right mate. I wipe against the grain. The coats I apply are extremely thin and, as much as possible, I just wipe up to the fret. I have used this technique now on quite a few guitars without a problem. In truth it doesn't look quite as good as it appears in the photo but all my guitars get played quite regularly and maple fretboards "gunk up" fairly quickly compared to Rosewood so it really doesn't matter.
Any little wipes of Poly/Tru-Oil that get on the frets are soon scraped off when the guitar is played. If you are really particular, after the Poly/Tru-Oil has cured just use a fretboard protector and buff the frets with 0000 steel wool.
Cheers
rob
I’ve been a bit lax with updates on this build but this post brings it up to date.
Next on the list of things to do was the stain. I used Feast Watson Golden Teak Prooftint which, to my disappointment, went too dark on the end grain. I wanted a much lighter finish to contrast against the top of the guitar. But having lived with it now for about a month I am starting to like it.
As I mentioned earlier I have used MinWax Wipe-On Poly on this guitar and in total I have applied 21 very thin coats. Because of the wet weather we have been having in Brisbane I had left the guitar about 3 weeks to cure which is about 2 weeks longer than I would usually do with Tru-Oil.
I don’t know if it was leaving it a lot longer to cure or MinWax just sets a lot harder than Tru-Oil, but the Poly needed a lot more work to get a good finish. The main problem was that wiping it on with a cloth leaves lots of tiny “cloth” ridges.
So I started sanding back with 1200 wet and dry paper until all the ridges had been sanded away and the body took on an even dull/matt finish. I then went to 1500, then 2000 grit paper to get as smooth a finish as I could. I use water with a dash of washing up liquid as a lubricant. During this stage it is very important to let the paper do the work and not to apply to much pressure.
Then finally on to my usual cutting compound, which is Brasso. All up it was about 2.5 hours of sanding and polishing. If your shoulder isn’t hurting by the time you have finished, you are not doing it right.
I will only be bringing the back and the sides to a gloss finish as I want to leave the top in its original “pulpit” condition.
Pics:
Before, with all the ridges. It looks like a semi gloss but in real life the whole surface is marred with tiny ridges from the cloth used to apply the Poly.
Attachment 25804
After sanding it back with 1200, 1500, and 2000 grit paper, and a cup of coffee. All the ridges have been sanded away and now it is a consistent matt finish.
Attachment 25805
After a really hard polish with Brasso it is finally starting to shine.
Attachment 25806
Attachment 25807
Attachment 25808
That's it for now. Hopefully more to come this week.
rob
Looking lovely, Rob.
Awesome work Rob.
Love the colour and always impressed with how you bring up such a shiny finish using Brasso. I have started using it too but geez, it is pretty wicked smelling stuff and strips lots off. Have had a few spots where I burned through the shiny top coat. Thankfully not back to bare wood but things have gone dull rather than shiny and just slowly doing spot touch ups to build up some more layers to polish.
Has this ever happened to you with using Brasso?
Cheers, Waz
Brasso is far from ideal as a polishing agent. It's certainly got some ammonia in it and that can react with some finishes. I know it works well on a lot of finishes, but never use too much at once or leave any obvious wet patches of it sitting on the surface as it can eat through. It is best to use a proper cutting agent if you can.
@Wazza
Thanks Waz.
I'm so sorry mate that you have had problems with Brasso. If I knew people were having problems with it, I wouldn't have talked it up so much.
I have never had a problem using it. I use something soft like an old flannelette shirt, make up a small wad, put a bit of Brasso on it and work it vigorously into a small area (about 150mm) section of the guitar. I will rub it in until the cloth starts to feel dry. By then there is no sign of Brasso or that chalky residue left. I will then immediately buff it off with a clean rag. I think I must have stumbled on the secret of only doing small areas and wiping it off before it has a chance to burn in.
And you are right, it is evil smelling stuff!!
@ Simon
Thanks Simon.
I think you are right Simon, after all it is meant to polish metal and NOT guitars! I started using it when one day I was looking for a cutting compound and all I could find in the house was this old bottle of Brasso that had been laying around for years. It worked, and I'm a cheap sod, so it became my goto polish.
Thanks guys.
Some great progress, Robin. This is such a lovely project.
Looks great. I love the seam line around the body.
I've certainly used Brasso for polishing several guitars, but it did melt the finish in one spot on one guitar sprayed with acrylic where I'd left a pool of Brasso sitting on the top. So it can be used very successfully, but you do need to be careful.
A top finish on that Rob, I will have to try the old Brasso on my next one,hopefully not too far away.
Wayno.
Hi Rob, thanks for the advice on your technique.
I have mainly used a brand new chux wipe folded over several times and wipe on a small amount at a time just like you do. It is usually around 'fold' lines where the body curves away leaving thinner edges where I seem to have had a few issues. Gotta say, for the most part it brings up the smoothest and shiniest surface which is still very soft to touch and not at all grippy as a lot of gloss finishes can be. Does a far better job that just using Meguiars. Just have to leave in the garage for a few days afterwards to allow fumes to dissipate.
Cheers, Waz
@Pabs and Sonic
Thanks guys, much appreciated.
@Simon and Wazza
Thanks for the warning guys. I have used it on all my guitars and had no idea it could cause such damage. I will point that out as a warning in future posts. I would hate to feel responsible for ruining the finish on someone else's guitar.
@Wayne
Thanks Wayno.
Take note of what Simon and Wazza said above. Use it sparingly and wipe it off ASAP and you should be right. Works for me, and all my guitars.
@Wazza
I will probably still use it, but being even more mindful of a little goes a long way.
Yeah it stinks. One of the advantages of not having a workshop, I get to build my guitars outdoors. lol
Thanks again guys
rob
Just a couple of small jobs today.
I don’t want the top too glossy so I tried a little furniture oil. A bit more glossy than I hoped but I think it will lose the shine fairly quickly.
Attachment 25953
The other little job was to shield the control and pup cavities.
Attachment 25954
Next week I will deal with the wiring and assemble the guitar and cut the bone nut.
I’m in the home stretch now.
Well, finally the first of the hurdles with this build. There are always a couple aren’t there?
Minor Problem #1. Finished the assembly and did the wiring. Plugged her into an amp. Guitar knobs all the way to 11 (Spinal Tap anyone?), and……...nothing. Pulled out the lead and got a nice hum, plugged it back into the guitar nothing, nada, zilch. Ready to call it quits for the day, and I turned down the volume on the guitar just a tad and there was life. Turned it all the way down and I had full volume.
As this guitar will probably never (or seldom) be played I thought I would just use leftovers from my previous PBG builds. I must have accumulated dozens of pots as I always upgrade them with my builds. So I just grabbed a couple. Little did I know that I picked the only 2 left-handed pots in my entire collection. D’oh! As they are audio pots I can’t just swap the lugs over and I will have to replace them with righties. No big deal.
Minor Problem #2. Somehow I screwed up the neck pocket and the neck sits way too low in the body so I should probably sort out some shims for it. But as the shims would be more than a few mm thick they would be noticeable and detract from the overall finish. I had bought some brass compensated saddles so I thought I would just flatten the bottom of the saddles so they would sit lower. They were not expensive and if it doesn’t work I’ll just buy some more and shim the neck as a last resort.
Original string height at the 12th fret > 3mm!!
Attachment 26079
Saddles before. As can be seen the height adjustment screws are already way to high, so I have ordered some shorter ones. That should stop the bleeding lol.
Attachment 26080
Hand filing the saddles reduced the height at the expense of some very sore fingers.
Attachment 26081
Saddles after filing
Attachment 26082
String height at 12th fret now about 1.8mm
Attachment 26083
Today's job will be to cut the nut and replace left-handed pots.
Time to do the bone nut.
If you are only building one guitar (good luck with that plan!!) or you are smart, you should probably buy one of the Pitbull pre-cut nuts. But if you intend doing more that one guitar and are a bit of a masochist like me, you’ll have a go at doing your own.
At this stage it is important to point out that if you want a good result unfortunately you will probably need a set of fret files. It is possible to do it without the proper files, but not recommended.
A Google search will show up a hundred different ways of doing nuts, so mine is probably not the best, but it works for me.
First off measure the height of your frets. Easy…... straight edge across 2 frets, and a feeler gauge to measure.
Attachment 26167
Then, with the nut in place, mark the fret height on it. A feeler gauge can be easily coaxed to bend to the radius of the neck by applying a wee bit of pressure on either end of the gauge.
Attachment 26169
The nut with a pencil line showing the approx height of the frets.
Attachment 26170
String spacing. It is important to get this right. There are plenty of calculations on the net, or buy a string spacing gauge. I use a simple layout plan that I downloaded off the net when I did my first nut. It has compensated string spacing (to take account of the different string gauges) and I have never felt the need to use anything more sophisticated, or expensive.
Attachment 26171
Then into the hobby vice, out with files, sandpaper and nut files and file away until you are close to (but obviously not below) the line.
Attachment 26173
Then ………………………...
The final step is probably the most tedious. This is where the final adjustments are made. This is done with nut in place and the strings on the guitar.
I tend to “creep up” on the correct depth and this means stringing the guitar up to pitch, measure the height, release string tension, take string out of the nut, cut a bit deeper, put the string back into the nut, bring string tension back to pitch, re-check string height. Repeat, repeat and repeat for each string.
String action is a very personal thing, do you like high or low action? But nut height is not so arbitrary. If you get the nut height too low you’ll get fret buzz, or if you get it too high your guitar will never play in tune over the first 3 or 4 frets. So it is important to get this right. The good news is that it is fairly easy to set the nut height accurately.
The method I use takes all the guess work out of it.
With the strings tuned up to pitch fret a sting on the 3rd fret then measure the gap between the string and the 1st fret. You should aim for a gap of about the thickness of a piece of paper.
This shot was taken at the beginning of the process. You can see that the strings sit quite low in the nut. When finished all excess nut material above the string will be removed so that the strings are only half "buried" in the nut. I'll post a photo tomorrow when I have (hopefully) finished the nut.
Attachment 26174
Do that for all 6 strings and yer done.
Hoped this was of some help to somebody.
Cheers
rob
Certainly helpful for me, thanks. :)
You're welcome Drew. Don't take it all as gospel though and do some research. But I've fine tuned it to work for me.
rob
Started this build back in late January, but had a few hiccups along the way and some personal stuff, but she is finally finished. All up just over 100 hours build time. Which is pretty much on average for my semi-scratch builds.
I must admit that I am very happy how she turned out. Absolutely my favourite guitar, and if I hadn’t promised it to Bev it would be a keeper. But it will mean so much more to Bev so I will gladly hand it over. Hopefully she will like it.
All stock standard Pitbull parts with the addition of a neck pick-up ring and some brass compensated saddles.
If it was my guitar I would have upgraded most of the hardware, but as she will probably rarely be played I thought I would leave it stock for the time being. That being said I am really happy (and impressed) how good she sounds. I have no idea how anybody can intonate a standard 3 saddle Tele but with the addition of the compensated saddles she is near as perfect along the whole length of the fretboard.
If I get a chance I will do my usual lame attempt at a sound demo.
Well, they say that if there are no pictures is never happened, so here’s the pics.
Attachment 26316
Attachment 26317
Attachment 26318
Attachment 26319
Attachment 26320
..........
Just some more photos. She is soooo photogenic. ;)
Attachment 26321
Attachment 26322
Attachment 26323
Attachment 26324
Attachment 26325
Thanks for stopping by.
rob
Wonderful work as always Robin. 👍🏾
Beautiful Robin.
Nice work Robin, love the knot, looks like an eye.
Stunning and a fit tribute...
Always in awe of your work Robin.
you never fail to impress Robin. Very nice work mate.
Excellent work, Robin. Have a gold star.
Your sound demo’s are not lame. Like your work.
Another masterpiece.
Love your work Robin. Truly inspirational.
Cheers, Waz