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Ha! Guess that's true even at my house. My other project is a partscaster. Bought the body and neck on a great sale at Warmoth (I used to live close to their factory) in 1986. Just put primer on the body.... I take things slow sometimes...Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenWashie
My current plan with the ESB-4 is to drill for and mount the two point bridge. Once I do that I'll get a better sense of the break angle of the strings off the bridge, and that should tell me how high off the deck the stop piece needs to be. I *think* it's going to be high enough for the only practical solution to be a trapeze...but I won't be sure until I do that.
I have gotten 3 bridges, three tailpieces and a bridge bass plate for this thing so far, and every time I think I've got it, I run into a new problem. My current thought is to cobble together a trapeze bridge out of a short (but too narrow) trapeze tail piece from ebay, an old p-bass bridge bass plate, some bolts and some scraps of maple to dress it up. I figure by sometime next week I should have figured out what's wrong with this idea ;-)
Well, I had in mind to drill for the two point bridge today...but...once again I have been exploring new corollaries of Murphy's law.
I measured at least 5 times to get the bridge in the right place, I noticed that the neck, which fits tightly, was a degree or two off of the body's center line. I did not think too much about that until I marked where the holes go. That's when I realized the southern hole for the bridge mount was not going to be entirely in the center block.
After a string of expletives that would have made my old farm hand buddies blush, I revisited DB's original suggestion to glue a piece of wood onto the center block. I always like the suggestion, but I only have access to the center block through the F-hole, and have never figured out how to clamp the piece in place.
Nevertheless, I cut a 1.25"x4.5" piece of 3/8" thick poplar, which is about the thickets piece of wood I can get through the F-hole. I used Titebond because it sets up fast (about 10 min), and because it cleans up easily with water if I ended up making a mess. I painted it on the top and side with Titebond. I then put the piece in place and held it there with a finger for 20 minutes. I could only get one finger on the piece, and I had to change fingers a few times since they kept cramping up from the weird angle.
Will now leave it sitting for at least 24 hours, and maybe more like 48. In the meantime, I may practice drilling for the bridge on some scrap maple veneered plywood to make sure I have the hang of it before I make the attempt on the curved surface of the body.
Did I mention that the center block should be a bit wider in these kits? 1/2" on either side would alleviate a multitude of evils. My other suggestion would be to have them come from the factory drilled for two point bridges and either stop pieces or trapeze tailpieces (assuming they have better luck than I have with the string spacing on trapezes).
...So Murphy was not done with me... my drill press is 1/2" too short to reach where the new holes need to be. Open to any suggestions... Really need to get these holes right!
OK, now to the tailpiece conundrum. I only found one trapeze tailpiece short enough to work. So, I bought it on Ebay:
Attachment 12843
Unfortunately, the string spacing was too narrow the Gibson style bridge, which has standard Fender spacing. The tailpiece was much narrower. So, here’s my “solution,” at least for now.
I thought about creating a cross bar out of wood. However, I was concerned that it might not be strong enough and would be hard to ground. I went back on ebay and bought a Fender p/j bridge base plate, and then disassembled the the ebay tailpiece.
Attachment 12844
As you can see I have bent the wire tongs on the tail piece to be a bit straighter.
I drilled a couple of holes for the tongs between where E and A string holes and between the D and G string holes. At first I thought the tongs needed to be outside the strings, but I saw a Framus that was done this way, and it just spaces better between the strings. I could then assemble it as a tailpiece like this:
Attachment 12845
That would more-or-less work, I figured, but was, frankly, pretty ugly. Even for me. I also thought the long bottom plate might cause trouble.
Continued next post...
...continued from previous...
I cut the bottom half of the Fender base plate off, and made a maple cover for it. The maple cover has slots to slide the tongs and strings through.
Attachment 12846
Strings touch metal, so there should not be a problem grounding either at the tailpiece or at the bridge. Here’s what the top and bottom look like
Attachment 12847
Attachment 12848
And here’s how it looks in the mock build:
Attachment 12849
This was pretty much all an ad lib so feedback will be appreciated.
My only concern is will there be enough downward angle on the strings behind the bridge.
Will you be finishing the wooden block with the same or a different finish?
My plan right now is to finish the block the same as the body... Sort of maroon. I am open to suggestions, however.
Hadn't considered the break angle. I got out a protractor, but still had to eyeball it a bit to see... It looks to me like the break angle will be about 15 degrees. I could potentially get it down another degree or two by bending the part of the tailpiece that has the hook. Does 15 seem like enough?
A nice and good looking solution to your problem
I think it should be fine as is, and you can always modify it if it isn't quite right
As long as the strings fit nicely into the saddles, and stay there, you should be ok
Part one of mounting Dano pickups in a standard humbucker rout....
First thing was to get rid of the brass Dano base plate. The full sized Dano pup will fit inside the "ears" of the HB rout, but the baseplate will not. So, I replaced it with a piece of steel that I cut out with some tin snips. I drilled the four corners, and two holes for the Dano mounting bolts. Not as attractive as the original Dano mounting plate, but functional.
Attachment 13110
I used screws and springs from a set of Jazz bass pickups to mount the Dano pickups inside the HB rout. In the pic you can see the springs compressed new/ugly base plate of the bridge pup.
Attachment 13111
I put my mock up of a pickup ring that I made with some scrap wood over the neck pickup, just to see how it will look, and check for fit. The actual ring will be thinner. The nails are there to make sure that the holes are in the right place--inside the corners of the HB rout. The real pup ring will have screws, of course.
Sharp eyes may note that the pickups are not centered in the HB rout, but are as far "south" as they will go. That's because the routs don't quite line up with the neck. To get the pickups to line up with the neck and bridge properly, I had to put them as far south as they'd go. It won't be noticeable once the pup rings go on. Assuming part two, making the pup-rings goes as planned ;-)
Very clever F3x. I think this bass will look very original. I'm looking forward to seeing it finished and hearing those Dano tones
If you want to hide or disguise your home made dano PUP mount you could always paint them black but that metal looks like it has been galvanised which would make it harder for paint to stick.
Did you ever consider dismantling the original kit PUPS and use the Brass Base plate to screw the Dano's into as they are the right sized frame for the PUP holes and you could still use the plastic surrounds and proper sprung screw height adjusters?
Edit. Thin sheet of timber veneer between bottom of PUP and mounting plate would also hide things and you may also be able to finish that in a similar colour to the body.
Yeah my diy baseplate is galvanized...not to mention unattractive.
I had not thought of using the brass plate from the original pup. I considered making a wood on though.
The DIY pickup ring is a compromise. But it deals with two issues I did not know how to deal with othewise: The alignment is a bit off, and the pups are wider than the HB ring.
Actually what I have in mind is close to your edit...plan to make it out of maple and finish it like the rest of the body. Going to take another look at the HB rings tho...
Thanks guys. Always good for some ideas
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Man, Fenderx you've had some ups and downs. How did you fix the drill press issue?
Yeah, the neck angle is only off by a little bit, but that has caused a kind of cascade of other issues to solve. Fortunately, folks on the forum will generally chime in with useful advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy40
I built a platform for this sort of cheezy drill guide I had lying around, and did it with that. I put up a thread about it here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy40
http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au...light=fender3x
I bought the drill guide long ago, and had never found it to be particularly useful. It's amazing how much better it got once I mated it with a platform and a pointy drill bit ;-)
One of the consequences of the neck on this beastie being slightly off center is that the joint is really good on one side, but not too good on the other. Here's what the bad side looked like:
Attachment 13241
What I finally decided to do was to see if I could cover the space with a little piece of maple. The maple I have is a bit darker than what the neck is made of, but I thought it might not stand out if I matched the grain and covered a relatively large part of the side. So, I cut a very thin piece with a coping saw.
Attachment 13243
And then clamped it into place with some yellow glue:
Attachment 13245
When I took off the clamps it looked like this:
Attachment 13246
Continued next post...
After about an hour or two of sanding with 100 and then 150 grit it looked like this:
Attachment 13248
Attachment 13249
You can certainly see the edge of the of the laminated piece, but I sanded until I could not feel the edge. Will still need a bit of wood filler, but aside from that, I think this is about as good as it's going to get ;-)
Are you running with a solid colour in that part of the build to disguise and hide things?
I don't really want to, but we'll see how it looks once stained...Quote:
Originally Posted by wazkelly
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I am inching toward having everything made/collected to put the bass together. Still need to complete the pickup rings. Also have some pots on order, and the wiring to do...but it is looking like I might actually get to the point where I begin to sand and finish this beastie.
So, two questions about that. First, if I am reading right, you guys recommend attaching everything--including all screw holes for tuning machines and strap buttons--BEFORE sanding and finishing, right?
The other thing is that I remember that someone had advice about drilling out holes in thin veneer tops to accommodate larger diameter pots than the cheap Chinese ones that come with the kit. Can anyone point me to that thread?
Thanks!
Personally, I drill all holes after finishing. But I'm usually pretty confident I'm not going to drill in the wrong spot (I double, triple and quadruple check EVERY measurement). Drilling all your holes first means you can do a complete dry build and string it up to make sure everything is where it needs to be and fixed before finishing if needs be. For your first, I think it's probably a good idea. If you need to move the bridge or something, it's going to be a lot easier to hide the fix.
To enlarge pot holes, I use an appropriate sized drill bit in REVERSE and with no pressure other than the weight of the drill. If you can get a piece of wood underneath the hole to drill into it will lessen the chance of tearout. Or, safer alternative, get yourself a reamer, like this one
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/knUAAO...zc~/s-l300.jpg
Thanks, Pablo. That reamer looks like a great tool. Will have to loo km for one!
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Was able to *mostly* make the pickup rings today. This was my 2nd attempt. The first was a failure that emphasized why, of all my tools, I fear the routers the most. I screwed my template to a piece of maple. The rout is for a lipstick tube that is about 5/8" wide. So I used a 1/2" forstner bit to clear out wood from the center of the template, to make it easier for the router...
Attachment 13723
...but not enough material. My router bit is on the large size (1/2") which was too close to the same size as the fortner bit I used to remove material. Add that my piece of maple was quite thick (3/4"). All I heard was "wham!" You can see the result. It actually bent the screws that were holding the template in place.
2nd go round went much better. First, I drilled two starter holes at each end of the template that were 5/8", the removed most of the rest with the 1/2" forstner bit. Had to be really careful because the template is only a hair wider than 5/8. I started the router in one of the 5/8" holes, and then removed material VERY slowly being careful not to let the router bind.
This time it went smoothly, and I got a good rout. Man maple is hard!
Next step was stand the maple board on one end and remove 5/16" of the material out of the middle of the 3/4" side of the maple chunk. That was slow and smoky on my cheap little table saw. After that I just cut the four sides to the right dimensions.
I still need to sand the bottoms of the rings to fit the curved top of the guitar, here's more or less how they'll fit:
Attachment 13724
Keeping fingers crossed that I don't break anything during the sanding phase!
Great job fender3x!
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Yeah, they don't call it Rock maple for nothing. I have found that you really need to have a router that spins up slowly, and you definitely want to do multiple passes at shallow depths, with a small diameter bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by fender3x
4 flute bits if you can get them (especially for the bigger diameters). I've a little 400W Ryobi Trim router that does okay, and a 1300w AEG Plunge Routing beast and neither of them is particularly happy having to work through Maple, its just hog the hell out of it, light cuts and as many passes as it takes.
I tried to use my electric plane to joint some Maple stock, boy was that a mistake! It went great on a really low cut, and then all of a sudden I hit a small knot and the planer blade exploded, bits of Tungsten carbide and shredded orange plastic (Planer housing shards) everywhere. Safety Glasses people, I can't stress that enough, USE YOUR PPE. I blunted two hand planes finishing the job that killed the electric planer.
I wore glasses and a full face shield the 2nd time. Maybe better woodworkers can chime if I did something that I shouldn't have! I made my template to work on my small table router, which is rated at 1.5 HP. I did not make the template very large, so I was sort of committed to the table router and doing a single pass. This worked, but only by removing most of the material first, letting the router come all the way up to speed before cutting, and then going slow.
But FW has me thinking...
In retrospect, I could have made the template large enough to use my 3.25 HP plunge router...and that way I could also have done multiple passes.
I could also have used thinner pieces of maple. The reason I didn't is that I was afraid that thin pieces would be more likely to break while routing.
I am done, for now, and hope I won't have to touch the router again for the duration of the build! but if anyone's done this, I'd be interested in the best way to do it!
Yeah, I don't have access to a table router (I understand the trepidation, those will take a finger off of the unwary or careless). I've found in my early efforts, that the more energy I put into getting my templates set up right, the better and easier my final workpiece results were. Like I said I was primarily using my little Ryobi for general jobs before I bought the big plunge router.
The routs I did in my FrankenWashie rebuild were all template and tested first on scrap stock, when I was happy with the templates I remade final versions and then paid more attention to sealing edges and removing bumps and potential hang ups that the router bit bearings might strike.
Routers are handy but fraught with pitfalls for the unprepared or unwise user. I can understand why you don't want to touch it again!
SO are you going to do the sandpaper over the body profile trick to get the curve right on the Pup ring underside?
That's the plan. I am told that wood rings are notoriously easy to break when sanding like this, but I havent found a better idea, so wish me luck and patience.
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You could try this, cover the top of the ring in masking tape and the top of a similar sized piece of scrap (Something flat, that you can easily grip). pop a few spots of super glue on the masking tape of both sides and then bring them together. This will both support the ring and give you a better hand hold for sanding. If you use the low tack masking tape on the ring side it should make it a bit easier to get off the tape. If it looks like its gotten super sticky then you can always leave an overhang of the tape and then slip a thin blade between the tape and the ring to ease it off.
Just don't press too hard on the block as you sand, as you could crack the ring with too much pressure.
After HOURS of sanding I have one pickup ring. I am using 60 grit, which is usually pretty aggressive, but man, this is slow! I did some of my test cuts with 1/4" balsa wood, and was surprised how "test" wood ;-)
Sitting and sanding, mostly I thought about how there must be a better way to do this. Best idea so far would be to use double-sticky tape to attach the piece to the bottom of my palm sander. I could then attach sandpaper to the top of the guitar, with low tack tape like I am using now. Then I could hold the sander with the attached piece down onto the sandpaper.
...I'm not going to do this for the remaining piece because I am afraid that a power tool could way to easily mess up the top. But the longer I sand, the more tempting the idea...
I think you are right about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by fender3x
I just usually remind myself that its gotta stand the test of time, so a number of hours now will pay off in years to come :)
Attachment 13958
Today I finished up the pickup rings and did the dry fit. So, I guess this officially means I am at the beginning ;-)
I attached everything. Posts for the bridge are not all the way in, but showed that the bridge was in the right place. My jerry-rigged tailpiece held the strings in place and didn't look too much like the cobbled together thing that it is. Pickup rings and Dano pickups are in about the right place. The ring being a bit wider than a standard humbucker feels like a pretty good place to put my thumb.
Did not put on the truss rod cover, because I have no idea where it is. Will most likely look for something suitable on ebay. Have also not drilled out the holes for the CTS Franken-pots that it will be using, but I have all the electronic parts now, and when I am not sanding or finishing, I imagine I'll be working on the wiring harness
Not a great pic, but I wanted at least one before I mess up the finish ;-)
dry fit looks great Fender3X, love the pup surrounds.
So what is the plans for the finish stain/solid paint and colour?
At the moment, I am still thinking I'll go with a stain and Tru-oil. Here's the test my wife liked best on a piece of plywood with maple veneer. Closest thing I could find to test on...
Attachment 13959
There are a couple of blemishes on the actual bass. One where I added a little fillet on the side of the neck-heel to cover a poor fit on one side of the neck joint. It's on the G-string side so even if it's noticeable, I won't have to look at it much. Also there are three dots where the ill-fated 3-point bridge was supposed to go. I patched as well as I could with maple plugs, but the maple I made the plugs from is a tad darker than the veneer.
I figure I'll put the stain down and just see how it looks. If I can live with it, it'll get stained and finished with TO. What I was hoping for was something close to my first bass, which was an Epiphone Newport that NEVER looked as good as this one...but I the color was cool ;-)
https://reverb-res.cloudinary.com/im...okpe5qbhwu.jpg
Nice plans.
Great mods Fender3x, I like that you did them first rather than the other way around....
Well it's been a while since I've posted, mostly because progress has been slow--or negative. I tried to put on the stain. It went on well on the back and sides. Not so well...but acceptable...on the neck. The front was another story. I do not see how I could have sanded any more lightly on the veneer, but I managed to damage it anyway. There were a number of places where it would just not take stain. Not that I didn't try... I kept adding stain until not only did the front look bad, but I also managed to make the back, sides and neck look like crap too.
I had three patched holes in the top. I had a fillet on the neck. So the best case scenario was going to be imperfect anyway. So I surrendered, and decided to do a solid finish. But it took a while before I could scrape together "enough" time to do the sanding. I did not use filler. I did use Dupli-Color filler primer. That went on reasonably well, and looked pretty good after sanding. There are a few places where just enough grain shows through so that you can tell there is wood under it, but I decided to live with that. What surprised me is that it took quite a bit. I actually used two 11 oz. cans, but it sanded down really nicely. Went down to 800 grit.
I had made a small piece for the bridge, two pickup covers and a truss rod cover out of maple. I did not use filler on those. Instead I sanded the raw wood down to 800 grit, and then put on a few coats of True Oil. Once I could not smell any VOC's I wet sanded that with 400 then 800. Then I painted it with Dupli-Color Perfect Match. I am using (BGM0388--GM Bright Red). Put on 3-4 coats of that.
I had feared this. I don't have spray equipment, and I am not the world's best rattle can painter. So, I had a few rough spots. On my small pieces I had a couple of runs that needed repair. I had a couple of even bigger runs on the bass. They are no fun to sand out. And every place that is disturbed by standing needs to be re-shot. Every place on the bass has 3 coats, some places--where there were repairs may have one or two more.
I finished painted the small pieces, and shot them with four coats of Dupli-Color Perfect Match Clear Coat. The clear coat seems considerably easier to use, but I have not used it on the guitar body yet... so stay tuned.
Once the four coats had hardened for 48 hours and I could not smell VOC's, I sanded with 1500, and hit them with one more thin coat of clear. I could buff them, but they are actually pretty nicely semi-gloss without doing anything. I may leave them as it.
The bass now looks like this:
Attachment 18269
That stick pointing out in the middle was to give me a handle while painting.
I taped off the binding, but there are places where the tape lifted a bit, and I am sure there will be some scraping to be done. Giving the bass some time to stop throwing off VOC's before I scrape. Will report once I have done that... Sure is red now ;-)
I thought I was getting close, but I really messed up the binding. The stain job I did colored the binding in places. It was a mistake not to clean that up before starting the new paint job. I thought I would be able to scrape the paint off just like scraping the excess paint off, but it ended up being a ton of work.
I let the paint get fairly dry before taking off the blue scotch pin striping tape. But there were a lot of places where I just could not get a clean edge off the binding. I ended up getting to the wood in places, confusing my primer for the edge. I scratched the good paint in places. I think I have made pretty much every mistake I could with the binding. If I ever try to build a guitar with binding again, I hope someone will just shoot me.
So I am going to have sand and re-shoot around the edges of the entire guitar again. I'll use the pin striping tape. That may be the only thing I did right this time. It did pretty well in most places. I think this time if there are places where it does not do well I may just live with it rather than trying to scrape much. That has gotten me nothing but grief this time.
The tape did not work as well on the f-holes. I got them cleaned up, but the edge around them chipped a bit. I will try one more time to tape them off. If that does not work, I am going to consider NOT scraping them. Just painting them the same color as the rest of the bass
Hi mate, understand your frustration and would have been tempted to paint over the binding and hide it forever than muck around sanding back and going again for a 3rd time.
you've overcome some real issues here, well done. I've found I can never perfectly mask binding without some effect on the finish. I've found that as long as I don't let it fully cure and don't let it get too thick, then it's not so bad
Has anyone ever tried putting something onto the binding like Vaseline or something, that can be easily washed off and carry the stain with it???