With Ash you dont have to fill the grain, alot of people dont for the effect, i always fill it for that smooth feel.
My Ash Baritone with the grain filled
Attachment 8615
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With Ash you dont have to fill the grain, alot of people dont for the effect, i always fill it for that smooth feel.
My Ash Baritone with the grain filled
Attachment 8615
So what was your filler? Timber mate or similar or something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyw
Timbermate Natural, i was trying to keep the guitar as natural as possible.
Gotcha, i have been experimenting with the ebony on ash, i'm not convinced I'm doing things right so I'll go looking through YT and older posts for guidance. Cheers mate.
Just checking my notes I used neutral body filler on the first coat but it left the grain looking a little bit pinky, so i added a slurp of Feast and Watsons maple stain to my liking, the colour of the paste will tell you what your getting. This filled the grain nicely and left it more natural.
Speaking the devil, i think i find the oil stain i need..from
http://www.ikea.com/es/es/catalog/pr...470/#/90057469
In fact, i have the "must" rocking chair from them in brown colour and i like it very much for the bass so...i'll give it a try...
Its stainable so you can add the pigment you like getting the neutral one.
Dayum son! Thats rather tastyQuote:
Originally Posted by tonyw
mmmmm, lovely baritone goodness. i must finish first project before beginning the baritone project.....
Okay so we have been a bit quiet on the completing of build front, as I have been doing actual work and experimenting with Timber mate application.
Major build event this weekend has occurred, the reuniting of Fretboard and neck!
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SO you can see from the below that the neck joint hasn't turned out quite as tidy as I'd planned but it is nothing calling for ashes and sackcloth so we shall just push on with it.
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We are now looking to do the bit that I have never really had any experience with, the coating and finishing of it. There are some basic electronics to do, but thanks to the wonderful folks at EMG, soldering will be kept to a minimum.
Okey Dokey, leapt in with the Ebony timber mate on the ash body and have arrived at this:
Attachment 8922 Attachment 8923 Attachment 8924
I am not sure if I want to go again to bring out the darker highlights some more, or leave it dirty looking as it is now (which I kind of like).
currently only rubbed down with 240, so still plenty of time to decide if i am going with the black wash, or if I colour things up and leave the neck natural.
Neck also got some reshaping done, in order to thin it down some more, nice and silky now!
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Happily a small opening up of the neck splice got filled and closed by the reuniting of FB and neck, so no longer need to worry about that.
Woww, it looks pretty much heavy build with this neck joint mod and fretboard...i love it!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenWashie
Hey FrankeWashie, looking at this photo it would appear we have both done the same thing when gluing the set neck as there is now no room for neck PUP surround. Mind you, yours looks like there is a bit of finger board overhang which mine didn't so that may just make all the difference on your build.
I spent so much time checking scale length across each bridge saddle that I failed to notice that around 2-3mm gap/extra length would have been required to accommodate the neck PUP surround. Now need to figure out a work around and removing the neck to go again just seems too hard and may create intonation problems. Will probably have to cut a bit out of the surround where it meets end of the neck. Not ideal but how it sounds and plays is more important than how it looks, unless it just remains hanging on a wall somewhere.
@Wazkelly, when I de-clamped and started examining I had that exact "Oh S**T!" moment. I have bought Gibson original PUP rings which are a great fit on the EMG units, but also very slim on the front of the neck ring. It JUST fits without having to distort it or remove wood. I still have a little dressing to do at the back end of the fretboard, so I will probably still do some tidy up there which will help that fit, but it was a very close thing.
@Sansan, thanks mate, it's been a really interesting exercise.
Okay so i've not done a lot just lately mainly due to time constraints, such is working for a living.
The Beta batch of 1/2 strength DT Black Stump turned up about a week ago, i hadn't done anything with it and was going to but then remembered the warnings of a few others that there may be a huge disparity in colour between body and neck as neck was naked white Maple and the body a more earthy toned Ash.
With this in mind, I set about mixing up a series of varying light washes of india ink and water. (From the Bottom, Straight, 75%, 50% and then roughly 25%)
Attachment 9467Attachment 9467
AT this point I began to wonder if it was such a good idea, but i didn't want to end up with the neck and body being completely disparate in colour so I persisted, it ended up being a fairly loose ratio of 1 drop india ink to 2Mls water)
Attachment 9464
What i have ended up with is a fairly close base grey colour across both the neck& head which more or less matches the timber mated body. Hopefully this gives me enough of a match to let the DT appear even across the whole unit.
Attachment 9465 Attachment 9466.
There are a couple of little glue spot issues to fix but on the whole, reasonably satisfied. At least until I get the DT on it and see what happens next!
looks good Franken, bring the build to the naughty warehouse when you arrive !
Sweet as bro, I shall need a large amp stack, some remedial guitar lessons, a single plum floating in brandy served in a man's bowler hat and all six of the infinity stones. (I can make it all work with Five of them at a push)Quote:
Originally Posted by wokkaboy
Hey FW , have you got an off cut of the maple neck to try the black stump on? maybe from when you cut the headstock. I heard one of the plusses about DT is that it takes to the rock maple quite well. I was going to experiment on the off cut of my TL-1A neck as against the ash body but I'm not finished sanding as yet.
Might have a couple of bits left over.....
Couple of metres is an off cut right?
Attachment 9540
I had more spare than I thought, i may have to build another guitar to get rid of it.;)
Great progress, nice blending job
Okey dokey, so because I've been so busy being a smart arse on every other thread, there hasn't been a whole heap of progress on the Explorer project. Also probably because i'm waiting for the DT to cure.
I started the staining with the Black stump, though I juggled the bottles and before i'd thought to check id done the first coat with the intensifier. Ah snot.
SO after a quick consultation with DB, he advised that I could either sand back and start again or continue with out stain for a transparent finish, which is what I'd intended. So thats what I decided to do!
(DB wavered for a moment on my alternate suggestion, which was to douse it with lighter Fluid, Hendrix it, curl up in the fetal position and rock slowly for a while, then find my testicles, tuck tail between legs and order a new kit from Adam, I think he actually wants to see a result!)
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There's a couple of odd bits I thought i'd dealt with:
- the Glue line on the back, nope says mr DT.
- the colour difference between maple neck and ash body, but i will hit the neck again to see if this will darken up some more.
So I'm just letting it hang to dry out. The weather in Sydney town is not ideal but so far, so good. When i have left it the 3-4 days between coats, there are no sticky patches and not damp spots it all feels dry to touch, there are a couple of almost "Fuzzy" patches that i am guessing could use some 0000 steel wool attention, but other than that, reasonably happy with the DT. Just gotta let it dry properly and then look for a low humidity day for the first finish coat.
Still tossing up whether to go with a spray acrylic, but I figure i'll probably stay the course with the DT for the experience.
But what to do with myself while waiting out the drying/curing time........
Well it seems that the humidity gremlins have finally found me! I went for a third coat of the intensifier to even out the colour across neck and body. It all went on well, no great issues but over the past week it has dried patchy and dull in places.
I am picking that this will require a strip back and start again?
Hey FW,
I didn't think you were after a finish with the intensifier coat? I would probably just take the gloss off with 800 grit toss up whether you need another intensifier and then start the finals. just a suggestion. maybe DB can clarify?
Sorry, I've had the same with stain coats and have lightly sanded the gloss bits with 400 grit before applying the next coat and its worked well.
WOW, awesome work. I wouldn't attempt this on my 6th build.
Yeah that was the plan, but I was shooting to darken up the neck some more. I think the culprit is probably application. When I went to try and rub back all I got was claggy sand paper. I'm going to leave it a bit and then try and cut it back a little and re-apply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy40
Thanks Scooter, to be fair I probably shouldn't have attempted it on my first build either! It has been an interesting exercise though, I have learned heck of a lot in a short period, and that all goes towards skill base for other projects.Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter75
not much going on...just hanging around...drying
Attachment 11330
I have had similar thing happen from either applying too much or over working the application..
Let it cure for a few days then give it a swipe with 320 grit to open it up and give it some tooth.
I only rub in one direction and brush the sandings off after each wipe, this helps to stop the paper glagging up.
I also give the finish a light sand between each coat, this helps to level off any high spots and stray cat hairs...
The pic is after 4 coats of the new Ocean Mucus colour, left for two weeks to cure then cut and polished..
It is still a bit soft, so after I leave it alone for about three weeks it should be nice and hard and ready for the final buff up
Cheers DB, I had reviewed some of the older posts on the clear step and what I am seeing is that I probably overworked the intensifier. I'm going to see how it looks after another coat of finish but if I don't like how it's going, I will be sanding back and starting over.
On the positive side I have found the dingtone very easy to work with, and despite my ham handed efforts and the bits I'm not happy with it looks really great!
Sometimes it takes a few coats of the final before it gives an even shine.
As with the intensifying coat, give it a light sand between coats and it should behave itself.
Well as much as I was hoping i could bring it back, i have had to resign myself to defeat with my first DT finish.
Attachment 12079
Overall it was patchy with some areas having a nice shine starting and others looking dry and rough. I had gone across it with some gentle rubbing back and re-finishing. cut way way back on the amount of final coat in the application but after 4 coats it just wasn't getting any better.
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I fully believe that prep and application are at fault, not enough sanding prep, not enough care in how i was going to go about coating an entire guitar as a single assembly etc. Simple things done well give good results, simple things not thought through and executed in a breathless rush, good results are hard to come by i guess.
So, with that learning experience under my belt, I shall regroup do some more sanding (because whats a day without sanding eh?) and see if i can do better on the second attempt. At least I know for certain, I can't do any worse. (fingers crossed)
Hey Franken, don't despair as that is how my EX-5 looked and suggest a light 800 wet sand to take any lumpy bits off and flatten things out and then apply one last intensifier, that is if you have any left. Others suggest scuff sanding with 0000 steel wool and I found that either took too much off or made things worse whereas the wet sand gave you a more even standard of finish to kick on with. Looks like you have mainly been dry sanding only and that has also introduced some surface scratches and clogging up your paper too and that is why wet sanding works out so much better.
Maybe PM Andy40 to ask what his special final coat technique is as I couldn't get it to work for me and switched to the stuff we are not supposed to talk about. Mind you, I was tempted to apply DT Neck finish for the top coats as it is supposed to be harder and therefore maybe not as many coats would be required?
Bottom line, if you are happy with the underlying shade and texture it can be salvaged with a choice of several different products to finish it off.
Thanks for that Waz though I think your bottom line about sums it up:
I said at the outset that this was an exercise in Woodworking and finishing, I've done okay on the woodworking side I want to make sure the finish lives up to the effort I put in to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by wazkelly
The final coats really showed up the shortcomings of my application of the intensifier so I really want to fix that and turn out something worth while.
So.. a Sanding we will go, a Sanding we will go, hi ho the merry o--- etc. :)
Light & easy touch is all you need as those intensifier coats come off way too quickly and still reckon best done wet to stop fouling up the grit paper.
What i found once the finals went on is that there were some really bad areas, areas where i had just been too heavy handed and some other crappy work. I have already stripped most of the body back, just getting to work on the neck, then I'm going to start again.
Okay so we have finally gotten unpacked and set up enough to start working on this thing again!
Taking on board some of the experiences of others, and having already tried staining it once, I decided some thought was needed in order to be able to stain without juggling full guitar, stain covered cloths and trying not to let it rest on anything.
So I knocked this together from materials on hand:
Attachment 13505
Its a bit rough but at least it allows me to access all parts of the guitar and turn it without too much trouble. In hindsight though, version 2 will probably use a bearing to ease the turn.
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if you are wondering about the grey on the maple neck its a legacy of having tried to darken the maple with india ink from my first translucent Black stump attempt. the india ink worked okay, the finish less so.
On the whole the finish has gone on a lot more evenly, with the wipedown method pioneered by ...Andy40 I think? I was concerned that there were areas that might end up looking a bit ragged from the sand back but it all seems to be looking okay. Now to wait 48 hours.
I do something similar with a dowel up the plug socket hole (said the bishop to the bar maid) and held in a vice.that body is going to look great once it gets clear coats
Thanks Dedman, I'm still pretty gunshy after the last cockup (Thats what SHE said!) so we'll take it nice and slow and see how we go. Thankfully the workshop has extraction and good airflow so we should be right. Just be nice get something finished for a change!
love the jig Frankie, so have you recently moved house ? First priority is to get the workshop up and running, then cold beer, then bedding and eating haha
If I wanted to sleep in my car then yes, your priority proposal is viable. Final fit out of the workshop though is dependent of the acquisition of some machinery and the relocation of several bicycles. Cold beer was of course among the first things sorted as were the beer fridge and the back up/high capacity beer fridge.Quote:
Originally Posted by wokkaboy
sounds like its all under control Frankie !
What machinery have you got in mind ?