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I like the way this guy has done it. It is kind of what I am shooting for but using my own home made drill jig.Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovyman32
It was a good and instructive video though. If I can get it as straight as he did, it will be a huge win.
Well, my drill guide arrived today - so I had a few practice goes with it on some scrap. I sort of followed the method in the video and it worked out pretty well I think. The holes have all joined up and seem evenly spaced on both sides.
I'll write up my method with some pics in my build diary. :)
Mine didn’t go so well. Not horrendously bad, just not the exact straight, evenly space row I was hoping for.
I made the jig out of my square aluminium tubing and tried to get a decent vertical jig using my drill press. Seemed to go smoothly.
That done and checked, I screwed my template bridge onto the body. I only used 2 screws as it has to come off for final sanding and painting.
Attachment 39278
All the holes lined up perfectly.
Following that you tube video, I then did really shallow holes through the template, so I had the drill holes centralised and started enough to use the jig to do a vertical drill. It’s hard to see but in the photo above, I have drilled through the template, into the body by about 3 or 4mm...
I then drilled each hole as far as the jig would let me. 20mm deep jig, 40 mm body, so halfway or more.
I took the template off and (lining up with the already halfway drilled holes at either end) drilled the two outer holes through.
Attachment 39279
That looked like this from the back
Attachment 39280
The idea being that I then place the template over some pins to make sure I was aligned, drill small stater holes (a few mm), then drill through from the back with the jig.
Attachment 39281
That is when the problems started.
When I drilled using the jig, some of the holes didn’t seem to quite join and they didn’t quite seem to line up either.
Looking at the bottoms hole of my jig, it seems to have deformed from the straight round hole.
Attachment 39282
I didn’t notice this in time.
So, I tried to get them to meet up, which they now do and then cover the problem with the bigger holes for the ferrules.
I lined them up as best I could and they are straightish, now but not perfect...continued in next post.
I now have finished drilling the ferrule holes and sort of bought things back into line. I’m just not thrilled with the result. It’s ok but, being my own harshest critic, I will always notice it. Damn.
Attachment 39283
Maybe aluminium wasn’t the best choice..maybe I should have clamped everything down?
The drill was a Brad point and brand new for the job. The drill is only a few months old and perfect. Not that I was ever going to blame the tools. My technique somewhere let me down. Maybe I should have rechecked that jig after each hole?
Anyway. It’s done now and I can’t really fix it better than what I have.
Time for sanding back and grain fill for the body and oil topcoat for the neck, now that then neck has been curing for a week.
What kind of ferrules do you have? If they are flanged type are the flanges going to interfere with each other on the holes that are closer together?
I’m wondering if you can use dowels to fill the string holes and filler for the ferrule holes? If you’re using the flanged ferrules it will all be largely covered up. I’m sure one of the seasoned professionals here can offer some advice.
I guess the problem might be that the jig is hollow. Did that allow the exit hole to be redrilled a number of times when used for each hole?
I’ve still not been brave enough to actually drill on the body yet - I’ve been doing a lot of testing with scrap pieces.
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They are the flanged type. I might be able to rejig them a bit. Will have a think about that
Well, after spending a lot of time thinking about how to fix it, I resolved to do the following.
1. Get a new body and do it all again;
2. Get a proper drill guide and test it on some scrap wood;
3. Remeasure everything;
4. Use the old body (when experiments have finished) by filling the holes, painting it and using a top loader bridge ( which is the fender bridge I use as a drilling template.
This has the absolute beauty of 2 competing ideas. They being, I get to do a redo on my string through bridge, with a proper drill guide and practising on scrap to make sure I have this right. The second idea is that, when I get another neck and some pickups, I will have 2 telecasters and I can compare top loader with string through.
I think you will all agree that my plan is exceptionally sensible.
Excellent plan! I’d be very interested to hear the difference between a ST and TL bridge.
I felt compelled to do ST on mine as it doesn’t look like a tele otherwise. But PRS and Gibson have top loaded guitars and I love those equally!
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This is the drill guide I got. It seems to have good reviews and I have been practicing on scrap wood.
Attachment 39475
There have been mostly good reviews but the less good reviews say it is pretty good and quite sturdy but they didn’t think it was the sort of tool that would last long enough to hand on to a grandchild.... It seems solid to me and I have no grandchildren yet, so still time to rethink my strategy.
I have seen some people mount it on a wooden base. That might be overkill. It does seem solid when clamped down to the wood.
I have drilled some test holes in some scrap pine, which has turned out ok.
Attachment 39476
The holes are not straight, I know. The first 2 were with an ordinary twist drill. The 3rd hole (ie, on the left as you look down) was with a Brad point, which gives a more accurate hole, particularly when centre punched.
Next step is to mark holes on the guitar body I messed up (and which will be filled with wood filler and top loader bridge installed), mark exactly where the holes for string through should go, centre punch centre of the holes, drill through with Brad points (I can drill straight through...can anyone tell me why that might be a bad idea?????) or go the halfway the flip over method.
Got it. Unless I leave a whole lot of drill exposed, it won’t go that deep. More shank exposed means Less stability. Ok. That has solved that mystery.
Nothing like a comparison photo.
Attachment 39478
That attachment seems to work well.
Now for the ferrule hole enlargement
Pretty straight and evenly spaced. With a micrometre, there is about a 0.2mm smaller gap, between 3 of the holes. I think that is going to be good enough for me. Some tear out, since I drilled so close to the original holes but, I suppose that was to be expected. I did want to direct compare.
Attachment 39479
Point is, the drill through went smoothly, holes are aligned and I have tried a couple of experiments with the rig and think I know how it will go.
Well, Back to measuring the new body for bridge position and making sure it is square.
I now have tuners ( pick ups are on the way from the US and will be here next week), so I can drill the holes in the neck and temporarily secure it in place, then accurately measure the bridge position.
Nice work there, far more aligned. I may have maligned that type of fixture unfairly, looks like you found a good’un!
Hi FW. Your assessment was pretty close to being right. It is a bit of a pain trying to align the drill with each centre punched hole properly. You really have to be completely fastidious about it and it takes time. That said, it is pretty solid metal and doesn’t seem to sag with the drill, so I am putting down the tiny differences to my alignment technique. If I can get it as close on the new body though, I will be happy. There is another one I saw, which is US made and costs over $300aud..., with shipping, it would be cheaper to get a bigger drill press!
I am pretty confident with how I can do it and how it works now. I spent hours trying to work out how to clamp it (my clamps don’t reach far enough to get both sides and clamping one side introduces a slight lean) but, working methodically and carefully aligning it seems to have got the right result.
It’s a great result, and your approach does you great credit to get it to work. Even with a drill press with a deep enough throat, you can still get it wrong shifting the body or the drill in relation to each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eponymous
This has been a bugbear of mine for some time, with guitars and other projects, so I want the o get one of these to mount to my drill press table:
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M1...mpound%20table
Ooooooo!!! Me want....Quote:
This has been a bugbear of mine for some time, with guitars and other projects, so I want the o get one of these to mount to my drill press table:
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M1...mpound%20table
@Eponymous - Good work. It's a shame it cost you one body to get there, but you've got a good practical salvage plan!
As Frankie said, it certainly can go wrong even with a drill press (don't ask me how I know this :o).
One trick to getting the ferrule holes in nice even line is: draw a parallel line off the centre line half the diameter of the hole size, then clamp a piece of hardwood (with a good square edge) along the line, then use it to plumb the edge of the drill bit to.
You still have the challenge of the centre to centre spacing, but the ferrules can be jigged around a bit to even up those little spaces if needed.
Look forward to seeing the rest of the build. Cheers
Great idea, McC! Brilliant, in fact! Excellent!Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
There now seems to be a problem with the dingotone finish not setting properly on the neck, so I haven’t done the drilling for that yet. Might have to get some white spirit or something to clean it off and start the neck finish again but that is a problem for tomorrow...it might set properly overnight but is has been 24 hours..
I know you guys haven’t used the dingotone finishes, so I will work this one out.
if you're after proper spacing if you're trying to do ferrells straight and true use a NEW 4 flute end mill bit their very sharp and won't wobble while cutting in the drill press you want the drill press speed pretty fast you'll never get them right with a drill bit or even with a Brad point
https://www.endmill.com.au/4-flute-s...-tialn-hrc-45/
I used the Dingotone neck finish on my TLA-TH. Thin coats and many of, allow lots of drying time. I found it reasonable to use and it doesn’t bore into your skull though your nose like other finishes tend to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eponymous
<sigh> [Frankie hits CTRL+D and bookmarks ANOTHER tool site]Quote:
Originally Posted by phrozin
Ooh..they look nice
I decided to actually mount and secure the neck in place to get the bridge position right.
When the neck fixed in place, I ran a straightedge against the neck and drew a line to the end of the body, each side. I then measured the centre line from those lines. That centre line aligns perfectly with the fret inlays.
With the neck fixed, I measured scale length from both e string positions, inside the nut and confirmed the measurement from the crown of the fret on the 12th fret. All ok.
I then inserted 2 tuners in each e string location and ran some white cotton down to the bridge from each tuners, making sure to run the cotton over the 2 e string bridges.
Attachment 39487
The cotton lines were equal on each side and were parallel to the edge of the fretboard.
Attachment 39490
With one e string saddle (low e) fully back and one (high e) fully forward, I set the other saddles to the middle position and aligned them onto the scale mark.
Attachment 39488
Attachment 39489
I marked 2 holes for the screws to secure the bridge to the guitar and will use my fender bridge fixed by those 2 screws as a template to drill the string through holes.
Having measured, remeasured, reremeasured, rerere......you get the idea....
This is what I have done.
I attached the drill template bridge with 2 screws. Obviously, all the saddle hardware came out, so I just had the template.
Then I got a drill to fit the string through holes in the template exactly, so no chance of going off centre. I drilled (free hand but holding the drill nice and straight) small 2 or 3 mm deep guide holes.
It looked like this
Attachment 39492
I then removed the template and used my drill guide to drill the 6 string through holes.
Like this.
Attachment 39493
I made sure they were straight before I went the next step.
Attachment 39494
Then I hand drilled the pilot holes at each end of the string through holes through the other side.
Attachment 39495
This is the bottom view.
I then drilled all of the remaining holes by drilling pilot holes through the template bridge (pinned in place by dowels at 1 and 6), then removing the template and using the drill guide again to get vertical and lined up holes.
Attachment 39496
TBC......
When I finished, I checked that they were straight and even...micrometre says “yes”. All of the gaps were within 0.01mm of each other.
All string through holes drilled and I just needed to widen the holes for the ferrules.
I set up a guide as McCreed had suggested.
Attachment 39497
That was to be butting up against the drill. The end result was this.
Attachment 39498
All straight. Straight through, evenly spaced and I have drilled the ferrule holes deep enough to countersink the body, so the ferrules will sit flush with the body when finished.
Tomorrow it is time to sand the body and start grain filling. Should have it fairly ready to paint by the weekend.
Using a water based grain filler, so maybe I should wait until that has shrunk as far as it can go but I also have an aerosol sanding sealer, so I may just do 3 coats of grain filler and spray a couple of coats of sanding sealer over the top, then get ready for primer/undercoat.
Busy day...where is that beer?????
Busy day today! That's great!
One thing I'll mention re: bridge placement - The point to line up on the E1 saddle (treble) with the scale length line is typically at the "break point" or "take-off point" of the saddle. Where the string contact "breaks away from" or "takes off from" the saddle.
Your position should be fine, but I see the break point a good 3-4mm further back. All this means is you may have got away without additional routing to the pickup cavity. However, that cavity position is a regular issue in a lot of TL kits.
Where you have the bridge everything should intonate fine though. In this case a little closer to the neck is better than too far away.
What water based grain filler do you have? Timbermate?
If you're painting as opposed to staining, you're sanding sealer plan is a good idea (you can also use shellac). Some people have reported Timbermate collapsing (shrinking) over time under paint, but I have not encountered this. Better safe than sorry though.
I lined the saddles up (mostly?) where I though the string passed over the top of the saddle and then dived away to the string through holes. Maybe the photo doesn’t show that. I will still have to rout the cavity a little, same as last time but that is a 5 minute job and some sanding....for tomorrow morning!
I have spent a lot of time on YouTube watching what some of the luthiers use (mostly small shop, like high line guitars and O’Brien guitars). The grain filler I chose is called aqua coat, which the high line guitars guy thinks is great and doesn’t shrink a whole lot. Of course, it also works when it is the right way up....
Attachment 39505
I don’t think it will be too different from most others but the guys I have seen use it say it suffers shrinkage less and is clear...not that that is important for this guitar but....there is enough for 3 or 4 guitars. I liked that it is easy to use and the end result can be great. The sanding sealer is a behlen product, which seems also to be pretty widely used.
For the paint...well...it’s from an Australian company called newdec but aside from being colourchange, doesn’t seem that special. Only got one spray can and worried I might need one more..maybe 2. Don’t know yet.
I’m hoping grain filler plus sanding sealer will prevent that slumping into the grain issue I have heard about.
I’m on leave for a week to try and get this project humming along, so I need to pack lots in. Today was an excellent day though.
Thanks for your good advice and encouragement
I guess that's sort of the same thing but in reverse of my description. I think of it as where the string leaves the saddle heading toward the nut since that's the benchmark for the scale length. As I said though, your position looks like it will work fine.Quote:
I lined the saddles up (mostly?) where I though the string passed over the top of the saddle and then dived away to the string through holes.
I've seen and heard a lot about the Aquacoat, but have yet to try it. If I had plans for for doing 3-4 more builds, I could justify the cost but I'm at a point where maybe one more (semi-scratch) is all I'm considering. Twelve guitars is more than I need already :p.
Look forward to watching the rest of your build.
I set the bridge in place and checked that it wouldn’t interfere with the pickguard. I know this is definitely the wrong order but having checked it on my last guitar body, I didn’t think there would be issues. Here is what I looks like with the pickguard in place.
Attachment 39506
Still a bit of room to move, if necessary. All good. You can also see the extra that needs to be routed from the pickguard cavity.
After routing, you will notice that I rushed at the end and took a divot out of the surface. Not waiting until the router had stopped fully. Quite a bit of sanding to go now.
Attachment 39507
Sanding about to start and by late morning, I should be putting down the first layer of grain filler.
If you're planning to use full size (24mm) pots, you'll need to widen the control cavity a smidge too.
Also, I would suggest fitting the control plate before modifying the pickguard for the bridge to ensure the 3 pieces work together harmoniously. The top edge of the pickguard at the neck pocket looks like it may need a bit reshaping if the guard moves south.
The only issue there is, there might need to be a bit more depth under the switch block might need a bit more depth but the control plate itself, with pots fits in sweet as a nut.
Attachment 39508
Everything fits now I have done this routing job in the control cavity
Attachment 39518
The body has been sanded back to get rid of any divots and pencil marks. Did it to 400 grit to get the foundation smooth and now for the grain filler.
Attachment 39519
I have no idea why all of my picture are upside down. Have tried to edit them in my photo library but no matter what I do they appear upside down.
Anyways, that is going to be the jig I use to spray paint in a couple of days. Will put an open step ladder sideways on with a drop cloth attached to the back and going to the floor to the ground. Any overspray will collect on the drop cloth
I will try and take a non upside down photo of that.....
Attachment 39520
Maybe this way?
love the grain, will look great when it is cleared, im just painting my Tele. sigh
BTW love the fancy bridge, i got one similar when i purchased my guitar a couple of years ago. Will look flash as.
Ah, yes, I forgot about the depth. The stock routing depth is too shallow for a proper CRL-type blade switch. The box-type import ones are shorter and fit fine, but a lot of people prefer the old school ones.Quote:
The only issue there is, there might need to be a bit more depth under the switch block might need a bit more depth but the control plate itself, with pots fits in sweet as a nut.
That bridge & control plate look great btw!
But, but.....the grain, the grain 😱😭 won’t somebody think of the grain!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eponymous
Clear paint maybe??????Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenWashie
The switch gear I got was an obsidian wire, solderless 4 position switch unit, which will give me each pickup individually, plus both pickups in parallel (humbucker style, which is the regular 3rd position for a tele) plus a 4th position which puts the pickups in a series configuration, which has the output feed of the neck pickup, being shunted into the input of the bridge pickup, which should give a richer, fuller sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
Couples with the Lindy Fralin blues special pickups (with 5% over wind) should give the beast a real kick along.
Quite interested to see how all of that works.
I feel like I am letting everyone down a little. The grain is truly beautiful and I do like it but my plan was to try and get a paint job like the silver sky nebula...which shifts colour from blue, through red to purple. Since I have bought the paint, I don’t want to waste it.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroburner1000
I do have a contact that can get me a quilted maple drop top and I’m tempted to try and get a custom shop hollowbody body and neck only and glue the drop top on, then try to do a dragon breath stain (I am just a big PRS nerd) and see if I can get that quilted 3D look...that is a project for later, though.
For now, spray paint ahoy!
Yor forgiven, i paint all mine..lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Eponymous
Dude, I’m just being silly. The silver sky plane sounds epic, it’s just a shame it wasn’t a plain basswood body is allQuote:
Originally Posted by Eponymous