Good stuff! Thanks for the continued updates!
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Good stuff! Thanks for the continued updates!
Just a bit more on the finish. An odd thing happened on the last coat of Aqua Coat filler and some of the coats of top coat (General Finishes High Performance Satin). I got this weird sort of cloudy sheen from them...
Attachment 39532
You see it on the back and even more so on the side. [Edit March 13, 2021] I just realized than when I originally posted this, I forgot to mention that after about an hour with the topcoat and about 30 min with the Aqua Coat, there was no more cloudiness. It had turned crystal clear.
That said, the top and back are really well filled. There are a couple of places where there are some natural grooves that follow the figuring of the wood at the bass of the cutaways, but I decided I sort of like how they looked, and the filler has made them quite smooth.
I have now used up all but 1 or 2 ml of my Top Coat. It seemed pricy at $32/quart (.946ml), but I was able to do 3 bodies and necks with this amount. I have just 1 or 2 ml left. I suspect that someone with spray equipment or a steadier hand could do better. The mfg recommends 3 coats with a brush. I brush on 6-10 coats in order to be able to safely sand out any imperfections.
Likewise the Aqua Coat people recommend about three coats, I used 4-5 because paulownia is so porous. There is plenty of that left...enough to do 3 or 4 more bodies without being stingy with it. That was around $25 US for a pint (473 ml).
I also got a pint of General Finishes Dye Stain... $18/pint. I barely used any of that, even with the tests. A pint is enough for 10 guitars at least. I can't imagine what else I will use it on, but I am sure my wife will think of something. Still, cheaper than the rattle can color I have put this project's brothers and sisters.
Now the waiting... Mfg recommends 3 weeks. I will take at least 4 weeks since I used more coats than they recommend.
Did the neck too. Not exactly like the old Epi batwings, but an homage nevertheless ;-)
Attachment 39533
Won't be much action on this thread until then I suspect.
I have "played" it every couple of days and banged it around, stretched the strings, ets. The low E string is tuned to C, and the other strings in 4ths above that to put higher string tension on. I have to tune it every few days because, while the paulownia seems OK, the 5/8" plywood that it's screwed to has warped a bit. I am feeling better about the structural integrity of the paulownia tho...Quote:
Originally Posted by fender3x
The finish has now cured for about 5 weeks, so I took it out off the rotisserie, and popped the neck on to see how it would look. One of my daughters suggested 86'ing the white pickguard in favor of a black one. I think she's right.
Attachment 39874
Light's not great in my garage at night, and the pics are not that sharp, but you can kind of get a sense of it. It may cure for a bit longer until I have a few hours to sand (and sand and sand).
Pulled the bridge off the paulownia testbed. No issues after a month, even with 3+ weeks of that strung on top rather than through.
Looks good!
It will look even better once you get polishing. Not sure about the pickguard thing. I like the black, but would need to see the white for a fair judgement!
I have seen similar color schemes from Fender, but usually black with a maple neck. Echoed by my aesthete daughter ;-)Attachment 39884Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
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Hmmm... I think they both work, but def favour the black. It may be the lighting difference between the two photos, but the black seems to focus the grain more.Quote:
Originally Posted by fender3x
I should learn to never argue with youth!
Yep, black wins for me.
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She'll be happy you guys agree with her. I am happy not to have a dillema ;-)
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This was the 2nd post when I started this thread, and as I put the hardware on, I increasingly see the wisdom of it. Paulownia is plenty stable enough to make a guitar body. Neck and bridge seem to attach fine and the softness of the wood does not seem to be an issue. It takes finish reasonably well, at least after a lot of pore filling...Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
...but it is really soft. I have managed to scratch and dent in a number of places even before getting it completely together. I tried to fix it in a couple of places, but that just made it worse. Won't try again. Surrendering to the "inevitability" as Jim said.
My plan, at the moment, is to finish the build, and see how it is as a player. It's super light, and it *seems* like the combination of Hipshot Ultralite tuners and a high-mass bridge may just sufficiently balance it...but I won't know that until I complete the build.
My minimum goal was to build a P-bass, with a Jazz neck that was as light as possible without being too far out of balance on my shoulder. It may achieve that. We'll see. But I think it is just going to collect dents and scratches like nobody's business. That may not keep it from being a good player, but I don't think it's going to win any awards for looks. At least I won't worry about the first scratch or dents...it's already got those.
I think it's great as the core of the ES's bodies in kits, and maybe that's the best way to use it--as a light core with something harder laminated to its exterior.
So just glue a thin skin of plywood on the front and rear of the body and you’ll be good to go. ;)
You may be right, and it looks like I'll get that opportunity. I just botched putting the string-through holes in.
Attachment 40543
With the other bad parts of the finish, it has enough other blemishes, that I think I may just finish with a solid color anyway. Too bad. Paulownia has a beautiful grain that is quite stunning in places. There's a spot on the back of the upper horn that I have been thinking of as the "Eye of Sauron"
Attachment 40544
If it has to get covered with veneer or plywood, it might as well get paint to. Probably well to reflect on the fact that Sauron was the villain...
I have run out of my top coat, and am thinking of switching to this stuff:
https://thecrystalacstore.com/produc...trument-finish
Yep, the grain is quite pretty, indeed.
Bummer about the issues you're running into. I have at least two solid body paulownia projects I'm planning at the moment (including the St Vincent) which I'd like to see play out. But I've also got a few plans on the go that have a heavy top, e.g. marri or ash, with a paulownia bottom.
Will be watching your projects with interest. Going to have to decide on a color... Will take a bit to think about what to do next. A cap, or at least a veneer, would be good for the top and bottom, but wouldnt help the sides. I do want the contouring of the precision body.
So that my example may continue to serve as a warning to others, I am pushing on. I used the technique in this video to do drill the holes for the ferrules:Quote:
Originally Posted by dozymuppet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn_VxSDEVmU
It worked like a charm, although it does not hide my accident. Even before that I had some other spots that were not doing well. Mostly this is because I tried to repair little dents and scratches, not realizing how deeply I'd have to sand to deal with them, and how resitant they'd be to fixing...so I was half way to thinking the finish was just not going to work.
Still, I am half way through final assembly. The bridge is on, the neck is finished and the tuners are installed. Add the pickguard, pickup and simple p-bass wiring and it will be ready to tryout. So why the heck not?
If there is a ton of neck-dive because the body is too light, or if it doesn't seem stable, I can declare the experiment a failure and try to find another body. If it seems stable and does not have excessive neck dive, I can try to find a harder finish, or the plywood approach that Simon recommended. Either way, might as well give it a whirl.
You can always hang a suitable weight off the rear strap button to stop neck dive. ;)
Well, I live in Florida so it shouldn't be too hard to find some fishing weights or truck nuts ;-)
Waiting for some finishing supplies to take another crack at the finish on the body. Hoping that I can get it a bit harder, though dents are probably inevitable. Meanwhile, I decided to wire it up. I have always meticulously drawn out my wiring diagram and used colored wires to help keep me from getting confused about what goes where. I have also always used cannibalized wire from obsolescent electronic stuff around the house.
The only guitar wires I have ever bought were some black and white push-back cloth insulation wires that I got in the mid-1980's. I never used them because it seemed too easy for my dyslexic brain to get confused with just black and white.
These wires seemed perfect for this project though. Not much has simpler wiring than a standard P-bass...and now I understand why so many people here like this kind of wiring. It is so much easier to produce a nice, tidy wiring harness with this stuff. I may have to see if I can get it in more colors...
Attachment 40628
Normally also available in a yellow, but that’s all I’ve seen.
Don’t forget the bridge ground wire.
Good eye!Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
I have some refinishing to do, so I haven't attached that yet ;-)
Me too, but your post prompted me to look...and it seems you can get it in colors...Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
https://www.wdmusic.com/gavitt-singl...e-details.html
Could you also dye the white cloth wire to any colour?Quote:
Originally Posted by fender3x
I don't think so. It's not bare cloth. I have heard it called "rubberized." The Gavitt company, that makes a lot of the "vintage" wire used in guitars says that it is "waxed cotton braided wire." I solder using magnification, and the insulation not only feels waxy, you could see it melt when the wire was heated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Davies
Meanwhile, when I was in the process of figuring out that the waxy stuff on the wire was actually wax, I ran across this:
https://www.evatco.com.au/vintage-cloth-pushback-wire
...seems you can get colored push back wire in AUS ;-)
I don't think I would use push back ware for anything but a guitar control cavity. I don't think it's safe for anything that carries much current or where there is much heat. Historically it can get brittle and crumble over time, and the gauge is overkill for guitars. Still the fact that it's pre-tinned and has that nice push back feature makes it really nice to work with. Plus it matches the wire my pickup came with.
Current carrying capacity is a function of the wire thickness, so at 22 AWG, it is good for up to about 1.5A. Its insulation seems to be rated at 300V. Probably 80°C rated.
You can get similar 20 AWG wire (2.5A) with a 600v insulation and 105°C rating, which is what I'd probably use in a valve amp if I wanted vintage-style wiring.
You'd have to strum pretty hard to get to 1.5A ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
Has anyone used Crystalac products? I am about to embark on what may be a futile effort to save the translucent finish without completely taking the finish down on the body. Would be curious about the experiences of others.
I have been doing some experiments with their CraftNique water-based gel stain that can go over the top finishes. I am getting it close so far, but we'll see. I am reconciled to doing a solid color if the experiments don't go well. On a test piece I replicated a sand through. I am using their pre-mixed "ruby-red" which is a little brighter than the "empire red" dye stain I had originally used. I used a little black acrylic craft paint on small paint brush to darken the light sand through spots, and then used a few coats on the whole thing to even out the color.
I also replicated the tear out that I got under one of the string-through holes. Those experiments have not gone as well so far. I first tied to fill with plastic wood (mfg: DAP). It says that it is "stainable" and "looks & acts like real wood." This turns out to pure BS. The dye stain turned it hot pink. So did the gel stain. Mixing with stain turned it pink. Mixing it with red and black turned it gray. So far the best I have been able to get out of it, is black that looks a bit like a knot-hole. Suboptimal but not hideous.
So far the best result seems to be coming from dye staining the tear out, then filling with aqua-coat clear, then staining with gel stain. Not perfect: maybe a tad better than black. I have thought about trying to glue in a little, stained, paulownia patch, but the tear out is jagged enough that I think it would be impossible to avoid visible glue spots that would make it worse. Also thought about making a paulownia-and-Aqua-Coat slurry, but haven't yet tried it.
One thing that is exceptionally clear to me now is that the CraftNique gel stain is a lot more forgiving to work with, partly because it can be used on raw wood OR on top of Aqua Coat OR on top of clear coat. You can get about any color you'd want with their color matching system--which is expensive. For cheapskates like me who don't want to pop for the "system" you can get individual colors, but you need to reconcile yourself with having a lot less options.
Have not yet tried the Brite Tone top coat
You can now get CrystalLac in the UK, but like AquaCoat and Solarez, it is very expensive here, with a US pint (16 fl oz) of the clear finish at £35(US$50/AUD$64) whilst the colourant bottles are £9 each (US$13/AUD$16.4).
So I haven't used it yet.
It's a bit less here but not cheap. I paid $22 for a half pint of Brite Tone, and another $13 for 4 oz of gel stain. That should be plenty of the gel stain, but If I used it the way I used the High Performance, I may have just barely enough of the top coat.
I have a few coats of shellac on. Got the dents fixed as best I could with AquaCoat. Not perfect but better. Did better with the sand-throughs. I used a tiny paintbrush with tiny amounts of the original stain until I could not see the damage. To my surprise that seems to have done the job.
Attachment 40782
At the moment my plan is to let the shellac sit for a couple of days and then begin using the Brite Tone finish. If that does not make it more dent-resistant...then I guess it's just not going to be dent resistant. Since beginning the project, I have found some water based wood hardeners that might have made a difference if I had known about them earlier. At this stage, it would be easier to get a new body and start over than to take the finish back and try again with this one...so they will need to wait for a future project if I try to work with paulownia again.... And I might. I DO like the weight.
I’m not sure how well that stuff would work on good wood. Rotten wood is easy to
penetrate, but good wood less so. You can but try.
Yeah, I am not sure either. Paulownia is very porous, but I have my doubts too. In any case, it's a moot point for this build.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
I got the PC Petrifier today. It's incredibly thin. It looks like skim milk that has been cut water. As feared it just beads up on a finished surface, so it's no good at all for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Barden
I also tried it on a scrap of bare paulownia. It soaked in nicely and raised the grain. I sanded that off, and will recoat tomorrow, then wait a few days for full curing, as per the directions. I am not really optimistic that it's going to make the wood much harder, but we'll see. I saw a recommendation for new wood to drill 1/8" holes so that it soaks in better. Obviously I am not going to do that.
If slathering it on lberally does not do the trick, I'll try immersing a chunk of paulownia in a plastic bag full of the stuff and leaving it overnight. That would be extravagant with most products, but this stuff was less than $5 for a half pint. At that price, it I could put a guitar body in turkey basting bag with if it looks like it will work.
No help for the current build, but that was expected. It will either be helpful for a future build, or it will contribute to my continuing project to be an object lesson on what not to do.
I tried some of the local equivalent on a scrap piece this weekend as well. It seemed to make a marginal difference. Not enough to bother with for my current project.
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Or you could buy a harder timber to start with... :pQuote:
If slathering it on lberally does not do the trick, I'll try immersing a chunk of paulownia in a plastic bag full of the stuff and leaving it overnight. That would be extravagant with most products, but this stuff was less than $5 for a half pint. At that price, it I could put a guitar body in turkey basting bag with if it looks like it will work.
That's what I thought yesterday, but I new think that it was not fully cured yesterday. It says on the bottle it can take from 1-3 days to cure. The piece that I "slathered" is much harder today...not maple hard, but much harder. I don't think "dunking" overnight made any appreciable difference. But it made enough of a difference that if I do another paulownia build, I'll definitely use it. Still no use for the current build. The mfg confirmed that it's of no use on finished wood.Quote:
Originally Posted by dozymuppet
Are you familiar with the old saying "too soon old, too late smart"? Between wood hardener and a harder top coat, I am hoping I can get an acceptable p-bass that weighs no more than 7 lbs. If it works for the p-bass, I am considering doing a Jazz body to replace the basswood body on my frankenjazz...to see if I can get it from 9.8 to around 7 lbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
All too familiar with the concept...Quote:
Are you familiar with the old saying "too soon old, too late smart"?
I get your point about weight though. 9.8 lbs (4.4 kg) is more than I'd want hanging off my shoulder.
I once owned a '69 LP that weighed 13 lbs! Talk about a boat anchor!
You could always go with a Steve Harris style strap :p.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
Had too look up what Steve Harris uses. I am guessing that the "sweater" strap is better suited to Northern England to Miami ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit
My Pitbull P bass is 5 and bit kilos. Lovely guitar but after about 30 minutes I’ve had enough of wearing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
I think that's what has put me on the lookout for a lighter bass. I thought chambering might be the thing. Warmoth advertises that it's chambered bodies reduce weight by 25%... but that's 25% of the *body* weight, not the assembled bass weight. At best that brings most chambered basses down into "swamp ash" territory...a reduction of about a pound overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart D
By contrast my ES body basses (one from Pit Bull and one from Fret Wire) are MUCH lighter. The assembled basses are around 3.4 kg. My swamp-ash precision weighs in at around 3.9 kg. A Gibson Midtown bass (closest commercial bass to a PB ESB-4) weighs in at around the same as my swamp-ash precision--about a pound less than the PB equivalent. The primary difference? The PB and FW bodies have a paulownia center-block, whereas the Gibson has a maple center-block.
I built the 2nd ES to get a neck and weight that I liked, and it worked pretty well.
I am now trying to get I neck and weight I like with the contoured comfort and simplicity of a P-bass. I think this will work, but I may have to accept the dents.