Yes I am. That’s the ‘nose’ hole between the eyes.
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Yes I am. That’s the ‘nose’ hole between the eyes.
I take it that's the 'proof of concept' test piece currently fitted?
Exthellent work Thir, thuch thterling work. Why you can barely thee the thtitcthes! Kudoth!Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMark
I get the headless concept with the string "ferrules" and truss rod access, but I'll be buggered if I can picture now all the pieces fit together. :confused:
Damn you and your drip-feeding!!!
No, that’s it, Simon. I never said this would be pretty. I’m aiming for resilience in knock around conditions.
It will be a somewhat standard looking travel guitar, McCreed. Only not as pretty.
Edit: I might put a cap over it to reduce ‘catch points’.
I was just thinking that the string holes could be a bit more aligned with the nut and evenly spaced.
I’m guessing it’s similar to this....Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
http://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/LbU...SW-1200-80.jpg
Missing link, or image Fretworn?
I see the image just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
Yes, except with a neck humbucker (of course). I’ve brought a soldering station and will copy my wiring diagram for my ES-3 as I will give it a volume and a tone pot. If it works I might even finish that ES-3 one day. Cavities to cut, learn how to solder and learn how to read a wiring diagram.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fretworn
So here is my ES-3 wiring diagram for my tone rider pickup.
I’ll be using the donated pickup which has two wires.
Questions to follow in the next post.
Ok, this pickup has the longer wire so I assume it is the neck pickup.
Which wire goes to the back of the volume pot and the pot sticky out bit?
What constitutes as Earth? I know people talk about running a wire to the bridge somehow, is that what I have to do for both pots and the jack output?
The bare wire is the earth which should go to the back of the vol pot. The white wire is the hot wire which goes to the pot tang.. although in a 1 vol 1 tone arrangement I normally put it on the centre tang, what you have in your diagram will work though. The bridge needs to be earthed, but it doesn't need to be earthed anywhere in particular. To the back of a pot is fine. I'd probably put a bridgeing earth wire between the back of each of the pots as well, for insurance.
How does that work?Quote:
The white wire is the hot wire which goes to the pot tang.. although in a 1 vol 1 tone arrangement I normally put it on the centre tang...
The centre lug is the wiper output.
...no I'm insane. I just checked, centre out is how I have it, not sure what I was thinking.. but theoretically would it matter? Aren't you just increasing the resistance between those two points of contact, so it doesn't really matter which is in and which is out.
Thanks Sonic! That’s a good start.
I’m still just a little confused about Earth.
The earth wires leave the pots and output and go....where exactly?
Edit: And thanks McCreed for double checking.
No, it doesn't matter. On a three lug volume voltage divider control, you could have centre as in or centre as out with the third terminal to ground. Either way you get a variable amount of signal dumping to ground. I typically use centre as out though since that lines up with the schematics. Just don't have center to ground and input and output on both ends. That won't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Mountain
The other thing to watch with both the volume and tone is that the direction of the knob can change depending on how you hook things up.
This is one way to wire up the controls using braided output wire.
http://youtu.be/e3RV1_0aYtc
If not using braided output wire, just replace the braid connections with a number of single wire connections.
The 'vintage' style wiring just means that the tone capacitor connects to the volume pot centre lug (output), instead of the left-hand lug as shown in your ES-3 diagram (input). It makes the tone and volume controls a bit more interactive, but it also keeps the tone brighter when you turn the volume down without the need to fit a treble bleed capacitor+resistor kit.
Yeah, I should have said "traditionally" centre lug as out.
Well, now I feel uncomfortable about my last answer. Yes, it's true that if you connect lug 3 to ground, then regardless of whether the input signal goes to lug 1 or the wiper lug 2, you will get full volume at one end of the pot adjustment, and no volume at the other. But the way it happens and the view seen by the input and output circuits is different. With input to lug 1, output to lug 2, and lug 3 to ground, the input circuit attached to the pot sees the full pot resistance R to ground regardless of where the pot is set. It's the output connection that moves from the input down to ground.
But if you swap things around so the input goes to the wiper lug and the output to lug 1 then the input circuit sees a variable resistance ranging from R to zero, when the input circuit is shorted directly to ground, producing no volume. At the no volume setting, rather than the output being shorted to ground, the output is still connected to the full resistance R. It just doesn't get any signal because the input goes straight to ground instead.
Summarising my perhaps faulty logic:
- output on wiper, the input circuit sees a constant resistance, and the output sees the variable resistance, leading to reduced signal strength as the wiper moves closer to ground (or further away from the input signal).
- input on wiper, the input circuit sees the variable resistance, and the output sees a constant load with variable signal strength.
So whether the wiring matters or not depends on whether the input circuit copes gracefully with the output being shorted to ground or not. Guitar pickups might not matter, but on an effect pedal or amp you might not want to wire it like this as it might cause too much current to flow.
Or at least I think that's what might happen. I am still (re)learning this stuff, and I might have it all wrong here. I have certainly done that before.
I should probably make a diagram, but meh.
TBH, what I know and how I've learnt it, has been very much from "paint by numbers" electronics. (connect wire A to lug X, now connect wire B... you get the idea :o)
The volume of electronic theory I possess would struggle to fill a thimble, but I manage to make things work and troubleshoot when needed.
I have just basically taken it on faith that the middle lug was always output, can't necessarily tell you why.
Also, we should be clear on how we refer to the lug numbers. TTBOMK, this is the accepted distinction:
Attachment 35380
That's the numbering I was referring to, I was just too lazy to find some pictures.
Thanks everyone. Between the posts and countless YouTube videos I’m getting somewhere (I think).
Ok, here is my first soldering attempt. Just like the diagram (?). The white wire is on the middle volume tang but looks like it’s on the side tang due to the shrink wrap and camera angle.
I get a little hum when I plug it into the amp, but it does pass the tap test.
Hoping for some comments before I heat the shrink wrap. Is there anything I can do with my newly purchased multimeter at this stage?
Where's the output ground wire connected to, or was that done after the pic was taken?
Have you shrunk the heat shrink yet?
Output ground wire?
Heat shrink not shrunk yet.
You've got a black wire on the output jack, but I can't see it leading to the back of a pot.
I thought that was supposed to go to the bridge.
Are you saying the black (ground) wire from the output jack needs to return to the back of one of the pots (volume or tone?) and another ground wire needs to be soldered from the back of one of the pots (volume or tone?) to connect with the bridge?
Indeedy!
That way it works. Ground wire to the bridge helps stop buzzing when installed, but the ground wire to the pot is the much more important wire.
Ok, so which pot should the black wire from the output jack return to? And which pot should have a wire to the bridge? Or does it not matter which pot is used?
I just make sure that there is a connection from the back of each pot to each other pot, and to the earth on the switch, and it's connected to the earth of the bridge. You just have to use your imagination to connect them all.
Just make sure you avoid creating a ground loop from overzealous grounding of everything. That creates more problems. This article from Fralin is a great read on the topic. The TL/DR summary is "Grounding is very simple: make sure everything is grounded, but only once."
DC
The reality is that it's very hard indeed to create a ground loop of any significance within a guitar. Whilst it is electrically better to have no loop, the noise difference will be so small as to be undetectable to the ear.
You may create a 'one turn coil' as Fralin says, but that coil is connected to ground at both ends, it's not wired across the ground and signal outputs. Connect a pickup to ground at both ends (thousands of turns) and how much noise do you get? None. Just silence!
Ground?earth loops only become a real problem once there's enough current flowing so that you get potential differences at the various ground point connections. With your 2-pot, 1-pickup circuit, the differences in ground path are so small and the currents involved so minimal that you'd need the most delicate of measuring instruments to measure any difference in potential at all.
Plus if you shield your control cavity, you are blocking noise signals from getting in, so they can't be picked up by any loop.
So try and build your control circuit without a ground loop, but don't loose any sleep over it if there is one. It can easily be solved with one snip of the wire cutters anyway.
Instructions followed. Tap test is working with no hum.
Unfortunately only white wire left to run to the bridge, but meh.
Quick question, how do you joint the ground wire at the bridge end? As in, where, what and how does it make contact at the bridge?
For a TOM bridge, ground wire poked into the post bushing hole before the bushing goes in. You need to drill a small hole into it from a suitable cavity.
You may need to show us some pics of what you've got, front and back, if you are unsure. We've only seen bits and pieces of your ideas so far.
Thanks Simon, That’s all I needed to know.
I think I’ve found a name for it, “The Travel-log”.
Ha! Nice name.
Ha ha, yeah, excellent name
Oh, the shame!
Once the neck was attached I found I got my bridge measurement out by a good 25mm. I don’t know how. I should stick with floating bridges. Anyhow, let’s fix that measurement.