Arzi's MMB-4 from vision to finish...

Hi

I drew these quickly to demonstrate what I had in mind:

This one being the final idea:
Attachment 4831

And mounting the binding roughly like this. 6mm binding with about 1mm above the top curve so that I could sand it to follow the curvature of the edge. Final width of the binding would be about 5mm. Or I just mount the 6mm in and sand the final edge. Just thought that it would be wise to leave at least some extra on top:
Attachment 4832

I hope this makes my thoughts more clear :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arzi

Any experience on this anyone?

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools...ref_currency=E

Seems to have more adjustment than siminoff - that way more chance to screw up the work too...

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Would love to guide you with those tools but unfortunately have never used them. I would consider if you plan on building more than one guitar with binding. If so then consider this set from StewMac. Currently $135 plus postage. You can also get your binding from them at the same time. Don't buy wooden binding unless you can bend the wood. Stick to the plastic variety. The basic routing set will give you the variety of 'bearings' you need to complete most jobs. Just remember to read the instructions carefully before routing your binding.

Some worthwhile points to consider.
Always test your routing set up on scrap wood before attempting to route the guitar. Harder to fix when you have already gone to deep.
The width of the router bit minus (2 times the thickness of the binding) will point to the size of the bearing you should be using to get the correct depth. Rather use a slightly LARGER bearing if you don't have the exact size. Best to be slightly proud with the binding than to have cut too deep.

When routing, always follow the grain of the wood. Routers tend to take chunks if you go anti the grain.

When working on an archt. as opposed to a flat body, angle the router to accommodate the curve so that the binding is cut parallel to the sides of the guitar.
I'll try post some pics to show what I mean.

Once you have routed the channel for the binding, you will need to glue the binding to the body. Stewmac sell a really good tape that can be used and which I recommend. Its not too tacky but it grips well. Get yourself some Tarzan Grip glue. Works best IMHO. tear plenty of strip of the tape in preparation for affixing the binding. Wear gloves.
Commence gluing from the neck. As you go, place the glue into the channel and then attach the binding. Ensure the binding is seated properly then place the strip of tape pulling down on the tape to force the binding to remain in the channel. You almost need to 'stretch' the tape but not quite. Place tape about 1cm apart. However, overlap slightly at the waist and at the ends of the binding. Leave the glue to dry for THREE DAYS before removing the tape. When removing the tape you need to pull the tape back on itself. Run the edge of the tape along its own length touching the tape together as you go. This is to make sure you do not tear any wood fibres from the body which will damage your wood. Then using a scrapper trim the edges and remove the excess glue.

Hi Gavin

Huge thanks for these tips and instructions! I read about the StewMac set of routing tips and found it has a lot of praising reviews. That set plus buying a decent router plus some kind of tilting accessory with them is gonna go over my budget at this point but definately worth considering in the long run. It's too bad I don't have a man cave to put these tools. Plus winter is coming so can't work outside from october till may. Down side of four seasons here.

What I learned from you already is that I cant place the binding to be glued like I thought but have to place it so that the tape won't force it to bend/tilt. Meaning I will place the whole strip below the rounded part of the top edge.

I read somewhere that some luthiers like to use acetone in stead of glue? It melts the plastic so that it binds to the wood and as the acetone evaporates - plastic hardens again to take grip - have you heard about or maybe tried that? Just curious - I'm gonna stick to glue even though acetone seems to be easy to get in form of nail polish remover. The idea could be useful in some other uses on the way though. Maybe attaching a couple of strips together to make wider material?...

I'm using plastic binding and when glueing I was gonna heat it slightly with a hairdrier when following the curves. Or heat it first to take form all the way around using tape to hold it in place. Should be easier to glue in place when you don't have to force it so much? I saw this somewhere in the bottomless bucket of info they call google...

Anyway I'm a bit wiser again... :)

Don't try to shape it in one go Arzi, do it bit by bit and take your time, then you should have no problems

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arzi

That set plus buying a decent router plus some kind of tilting accessory with them is gonna go over my budget at this point but definately worth considering in the long run.

I read somewhere that some luthiers like to use acetone in stead of glue?

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You don't need to buy the router from Stewmac, an appropriate router that runs at 25000 will do. Check out 'Laminate routers" but make sure the col is the same fitting as the router bit you order from stewmac.

Acetone can be purchased from most hardware stores. Great for gluing plastic binding to one another to get the black/white/black or similar combination of binding design. However, it can be very messy working with when attaching to wood if you don't have much experience, hence the glue recommendation. You have to be careful with the Acetone because it does MELT the plastic binding and will indent where you press with your fingers...been there done that!

I'd suggest making sure you know what you are doing with the elbow contour before you start. I still reckon this will be the place you risk trouble.

Hi

Thanks guys - I'm not gonna "freehand" on the routing. I know that's not gonna end up in nothing but a disaster. Just trying to find a more affordable solution at this point but then again - what's the use if it ruins the work. I'll try to figure this out. I value the the info. :)

Update

Just got mail that my kit has left the factory.... :)

Will post a mock build photo as soon as it arrives.

Update

So... I´ve just paid the taxes on the kit and it should be delivered to me in 2-3 days time - meaning I´ll get my hands on it this week. Not bad for a custom order to be received in little over 3 weeks. Way to go PBG! :)

So far I´ve ordered some extras for the build:

- a second humbucker pickup to get the "HH" kind of look and sound

- Artec´s 2-band preamp with concentric bass/treble pot to fit the factory control plate

- DPDT on/on/on mini switches with rubber shielding tips to split the both humbuckers

- some stronger wires to use for soldering job

- two kinds of battery boxes to choose from

- pearl white scratchplate material

- pearl white binding strips in 2mm, 6mm and 10mm witdh (just in case I get some wild ideas for the wider one...)

- bridge saddles, tuning peg ferrules and scratch plate/control plate screws in gold color (always wanted to see if this would add some subtle "bling" with chrome).

- concentric knob for the preamp´s pot

- a cheap and light engraving machine (was dirt cheap so bought it)

- some naughty oil... (sorry DB - just don´t have too many "use easily at home" options here)

I´ve also practiced some routing freehand... (I know I wasn´t gonna....) and surprisingly feel quite comfortable with the idea. I can get the depth (1,5mm) very accurate when working with patience and I do have the small cheap tip to use for controlling the height. I know this sounds like a disaster to happen but I work like 1 cm at a time and checking the fit with a piece of binding strip. Slow process but can be done.

I´ve played with the colors too and tested the red with some brown and black on a piece of light colored pine blank (to be used for the top and top of the headstock). So far the best result has been one layer of red mixed with tiny bit of black to darken the color -> this sanded away to be left only in the grains for pop factor and then rest of the layers in basic red. I´ve also ordered an antique type of walnut(ish) water based stain (according the seller it´s popular with people who restore victorian era furniture in UK...?) that I´m thinking of using for the back of the body after I get it scrap-tested for the desired shade.

I´ve also thought of the whole process and listed the order of different stages in the build so I wouldn`t miss out anything crucial. In case I have early stages of dementia that I don´t know about... ;)

In the meantime I´ve fixed my friend´s old Hondo II from around 1975 (wow that thing is heavy!!). Had to have something to do while waiting for my kit.

Now I´m only hoping that the kit is all ok and I can get to building the "Medic Man". :)