Tuning Machines.

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Originally Posted by pablopepper

Please excuse my ignorance, but what the hell is backlash?

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Backlash is where you turn the knob on the tuning machines and nothing happens till you get to a certain point, then the tuner capstan starts rotating and the pitch of the string changes, when you try to tune the string up to pitch you usually end up going a bit sharp so you turn the knob of the tuning machine the other way, again nothing happens till you get to a certain point and the tuner capstan starts rotating the other way.

Backlash makes it hard to tune each string to pitch.


@ bargeloobs, I tried all those things you listed, including stretching the strings to the point where I thought they would break, didn't make any difference, I found that the tuning problems were definitely caused by the tuning machines, I even tried lubricating each of the nut slots too, made no difference, the only thing that did make a difference was completely replacing all the original tuners with brand new ones, when I did that the tuning problems went away and the tuning was a lot more stable.



The original tuners on my Gibson USA Les Paul Studio had varying degrees of backlash, the tuner for the A-String was the worst with about a quarter-turn of backlash, this made the Les Paul hard to tune accurately, I tried replacing the original tuners with some Grover Rotomatics, but found that the knobs on the new tuners a bit loose fitting, I received a couple of sets of brand new Grover Deluxe Kluson tuners in the mail this morning (I had ordered them from Allparts.com the previous fortnight), I installed the new tuners on my Les Paul and found that tuning was much improved.


I found that stretching the strings actually made the tuning problems worse rather than better, and yes I was pulling the strings away from the fretboard rather than sideways.


I'm using 46-10 gauge strings on my Les Paul with an un-wound G-String.

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

interesting post there Dr Nomis, so is there a tuner you've tried that does keep in tune and have little backlash ?

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I'd say the best tuners I've tried with regards to Backlash were the set of 6 Steinberger Gearless Tuners I installed on a Cimar Superstrat a friend gave me.

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Originally Posted by DrNomis_44

I'd say the best tuners I've tried with regards to Backlash were the set of 6 Steinberger Gearless Tuners I installed on a Cimar Superstrat a friend gave me.

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Now they were "the best" for backlash, or they were "the best" in the absence of....backlash?

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Originally Posted by bargeloobs

Now they were "the best" for backlash, or they were "the best" in the absence of....backlash?

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Well, because they are Gearless Tuners, they don't suffer from Backlash like conventional Geared Tuners do, Steinberger Gearless Tuners "Pull" the strings up to pitch rather than wind them, and it's a straight pull, Geared Tuners suffer from Backlash because sometimes the mesh between the teeth of the gears and the worm-drive isn't as tight as it should be, this can be caused by manufacturing defects, tolerances, or even just wear that happens during the tuner's useful lifespan before it's replaced, I've come across quite a few conventional Geared tuners that exhibited Backlash when brand new straight out of the packaging, some of the brand new conventional Geared Tuners I've bought also exhibited some capstan-shaft wobble, this is where you can actually move the capstan shaft side to side after installing the tuner, I've found that capstan-shaft wobble can also contribute to tuning problems as well.


If you go to the official Sperzel website they talk about all the manufacturing defects that plague other tuners, which contribute to tuning problems, Bob Sperzel talks about the design features of his tuners that are designed to maximize tuning stability, I haven't tried Sperzel Tuners myself but I wouldn't mind giving them a go one day.

Sperzel tuners are pretty good but when it comes to Bass tuners I have found Gotoh to be extremely good quality for the price... For Guitars Gotoh lockers are brilliant, not had a single one come back to me with unstable tuning issues.

Remember, brand names sell gear, but that does not necessarily make them the best.. People rave about hip sh#t gear but I have found it to be very poorly made from mystery metal, very expensive mystery metal and as for customer service? Non existant..

I forked out over 500 US for a headless system only to discover it was made very cheaply.
On the very first tune up the G tuner stripped.. Five weeks later I got a replacement along with a rather rude note handwritten in RED ink... Needless to say I not only spat the dummy out I also chucked all my toys out of the cot...

Wish I still had a copy of the email I sent in response, not only did I tell them to stick their bad products and service in a rather rude place, I also told them to go to hell and gave them detailed instructions on how to get there... Funny thing, I never did get a reply.....

I just wish Steinberger would come up with straight pull tuners for Bass..............

nice one DB, I wish I saw your email to hipshot, $500 US for 4 tuners, woah you would expect high quality for those bucks !

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Originally Posted by dingobass

Sperzel tuners are pretty good but when it comes to Bass tuners I have found Gotoh to be extremely good quality for the price... For Guitars Gotoh lockers are brilliant, not had a single one come back to me with unstable tuning issues.

Remember, brand names sell gear, but that does not necessarily make them the best.. People rave about hip sh#t gear but I have found it to be very poorly made from mystery metal, very expensive mystery metal and as for customer service? Non existant..

I forked out over 500 US for a headless system only to discover it was made very cheaply.
On the very first tune up the G tuner stripped.. Five weeks later I got a replacement along with a rather rude note handwritten in RED ink... Needless to say I not only spat the dummy out I also chucked all my toys out of the cot...

Wish I still had a copy of the email I sent in response, not only did I tell them to stick their bad products and service in a rather rude place, I also told them to go to hell and gave them detailed instructions on how to get there... Funny thing, I never did get a reply.....

I just wish Steinberger would come up with straight pull tuners for Bass..............

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Geez, that sounds a bit like the experience I had with the Headless Guitar kit I got from that Irish company I ordered the kit online from, I wasn't too impressed with the quality of the bridge hardware (it was branded Overlord Of Music), I seem to remember one of the tuners on the bridge feeling like the threads had stripped a bit, since a genuine Steinberger R-Trem bridge was going to cost me $250.00 (about the same price as the kit), I decided to abandon finishing the kit, I don't think I got my money's worth when I bought the kit and I think $50.00 would have been a more realistic price for it.

What I think these cheap versions of Steinberger hardware do is tarnish the reputation of Steinberger products.

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Originally Posted by DrNomis_44

(it was branded Overlord Of Music)

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haha Dr Nomis, that bridge labelled Overlord of Music is where we got the idea of the 2000+ post tag !

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Originally Posted by wokkaboy

haha Dr Nomis, that bridge labelled Overlord of Music is where we got the idea of the 2000+ post tag !

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Lol....I was wondering where it came from, I've still got a long way to go till I get to 2000 posts, I see that I've only made 83 posts (including this one)so far.

yeah Dr Nomis, either Gavmeister or DB posted a pic of the headless bridge from a Steinberger and couldn't believe it said Overlord of music stamped ontop.
You will get your post numbers up, you just got to chip away. My next target is 5000 posts and hoping for a new tag then haha