Do you mean this stuff?Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
https://www.thesandpaperman.com.au/2...wool-pads.html
Thanks guys for your input[emoji3]
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Do you mean this stuff?Quote:
Originally Posted by McCreed
https://www.thesandpaperman.com.au/2...wool-pads.html
Thanks guys for your input[emoji3]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, that is the finest grade (akin to 0000 steel wool) but I keep a range of grades from this page:Quote:
Originally Posted by OliSam
https://www.thesandpaperman.com.au/b...-sanding-pads/
edit:
The 3M/Scotch-Brite ones are harder to find in AUS, but you can get the green ones at Woolies (in the cleaning stuff) and they seem to be somewhere around the equivalent of P400-P600 sandpaper. That's just my estimate, not a scientific fact.
Also, I think someone here has found white and blue ones at the BGS, which I believe are finer than the green.
I have used all the above pads and they are non abrasive Scotch Brite of various grades but are not really sandpaper like as they have no abrasive on them and while they will polish they actually dont sand the same as the proper abrasive pads.
I only use 120 and 240 sand paper and for the rest I use 3M abrasive Scotch Brite Pads. If you do a search on Amazon for 3M Scotch Brite you will find what they have in stock in various locations. I have the red, grey and white pads and the white is the finest and is equivalent to 1500 wet and dry or 0000 steel wool but they are also the hardest to find. When you touch the pad you can actually feel like a grit to them whereas the other types are just for cleaning or fine buffing. They are a little bit expensive but you can buy bulk as I did and I have been using the same ones for about 18 months and I bought packs of 10 each. They are very good in flattening paint for polishing and removing gloss from varnish on the back of a guitar neck. I only put minimal finish on my guitars and since I have been using the pads for flattening I can get buy with only using about 3-5 coats before I flatten so I can polish. I now polish with a felt pad and with this method I have never sanded through any of my finishes. I used this method with Tru-oil and I only applied 3 coats of oil and it came up like glass.
I have never done less than 30 coats of TruOil because I like a TO glossy finish. I do a light clean up with ScotchBrite (grey) after each coat. However the SB does not flatten the coats. Therefore it needs levelling. If you give the finish one stoke with 1200 sandpaper you see fine stroke marks from the application. I find I have scratched the finish if I do use 1200 to level it. But found that the 1200 equiv micro-mesh pads level like 1200 sandpaper but does not leave scratches. As I get further through the process I use finer MM. I do a level after 5 coats. The last couple of levels are very light.
The Green Scotch-Brite from WW's are indeed abrasive. Been using them for years.Quote:
I have used all the above pads and they are non abrasive Scotch Brite of various grades but are not really sandpaper like as they have no abrasive on them and while they will polish they actually dont sand the same as the proper abrasive pads.
This has not been my experience. I have used it between coats of Tru Oil and poly just fine. However, I use the Gray Bear-Tex pads from the Sandpaperman, so maybe they're different.Quote:
I do a light clean up with ScotchBrite (grey) after each coat. However the SB does not flatten the coats. Therefore it needs levelling.
I think we are suffering from a difference in our terminology here. I'd certianly use the terms 'flattening' and 'smoothing' in a different context to the one Dickybee007 seems to be using them for (I'd use 'flattening' to describe getting the surface level on a larger scale with no dips or humps, and 'smoothing' to refer to the state of the surface and getting that as smooth feeling as possible).
All the 3M Scotch-Brite pads are abrasives. There is quite a range of them and you really need to go by the 3M number reference, as some of the colours are duplicated (or very similar looking).
In order of fineness and using the 3M colour description we have:
7445 - White - Steel wool 0000 equivalent
7745 - Gold- Steel wool 000 equivalent
7448 - Gray - Steel wool 00 equivalent
64660 - Gray - Steel wool 00 equivalent
7447 -Maroon - Steel wool grade 1 equivalent
64659 - Maroon - Steel wool grade 1 equivalent
8447 - Maroon - Steel wool grade 2 equivalent
7446 - Gray - Steel wool grade 3 equivalent
7440 - Tan - Steel wool grade 4 equivalent
The coarser the steel wool equivalent (0000 being the finest and grade 4 being the coarsest), the more aggressive the pad will be and the more material it will take off (and the deeper the scratches left behind).
The 5-number pads are slightly smaller (4.5" x 9") than the 4-number pads (6" x 9") so I don't know if there are any real differences apart from that in the actual coarseness, but that's how 3M grade them in their literature.
They all have their uses on different materials, and you'd only want to use the finer grade equivalents on a guitar finish, whereas the coarser grades will be a lot quicker at removing rust from metal etc. 3M themselves describe the white 7445 as 'very mild abrasive for gentle, yet thorough cleaning' and as a light duty cleansing pad.
All the 3M pads are too flexible for what I'd call 'flattening' for flat surfaces, where I'd use sandpaper stuck to a flat board. I'd only use the 3M pads on an already level flat surface, or on curved surface with no obvious dips and humps on.
I thought the idea of the forum was to share ideas and procedures and to help those who needed help. Over the years I have honed my procedures as I don't believe I have to put as many coats as others onto a guitar to achieve a gloss finish. If you want to put more coats on than I do that doesn't mean I am wrong and your right it just means that is your way of doing the same as I can with less material. I have only used TO on 2 guitars and was less than impressed and I can achieve a quicker and more durable finish with other types of finish. Have used TO on gun stocks for about 40+ years and I only require a single coat which then gets a light rub with some sort of abrasive to take the gloss off as light reflection is the last thing you want when hunting. I find a 50/50 Raw Linseed Oil and Turps solution a lot cheaper and just as good and I am about to use it on a guitar I have just received if it gives me the colour I want.
If you make the base material as flat as possible you don't need many coats to achieve a high gloss finish. I sand to 240 then grain fill with Timber Mate if I want to high light a grain. If I don't want to high light the grain I just use a sanding sealer until I get the wood smooth. The finer the finish on the wood the less finish you need. That is why when you paint a car body you don't need 50 coats of paint to get a gloss finish as the base is already smooth. If you can get the base as flat as a car then you don't need as many coats to get a gloss finish. One guitar I put TO on I only used 2 coats and it didn't need any polishing to give a high gloss finish. The body was left natural and I used a sanding sealer and sanded the sealer with my finest Scotch Brite with a cork sanding block across the grain so as not to remove to much sealer and leave the surface as smooth as possible. I have on occasion used a random orbital sander with a piece of Scotch Brite under the felt pad I use to polish. When I apply any finish the surface should appear wet and glossy, other wise I am not putting on enough. I never use a brush or spray gun with any of my finishes, I only ever use a Chux disposable cloth which I can get in a roll cheap. I normally put on 2 coats then flatten, remove any high spots, with my finest Scotch Brite. If you sand through any type of finish you are rubbing too hard, using the wrong grade of abrasive or too long in the same spot. If the finish needs that much sanding then fix the base material preparation or the way you apply the finish. You should never try and fix a badly prepared surface with any type of finish. Once I flatten the surface I then use either a felt/cloth/sponge rubber buff in a drill or random orbital sander with some form of polish but if the surface is smooth enough then it takes very little to achieve a high gloss and on occasions I have hand polished.
As for the pads, I have used the Maroon and Grey to sand wood, they remove wood finely and it doesn't take much to produce saw dust and are great for doing inside curves or along a corner radius and they don't dirty your wood like wet and dry and I use them on my guitar fret boards. Any finishing is done with my white pads. If you press too hard you can leave scratches but you would have to be a gorilla as when I use them the finish is as smooth as I got when I used the 2000 micro mesh, you just need a soft touch. If you use any sort of finishing paper/pad and rub too aggressive or too much pressure you can leave marks even with micro mesh. You should never press harder with any abrasive paper, a light touch is all that is needed. If you think more pressure will help, you are wrong. If more pressure is needed then clean the abrasive or get a new piece. Let the abrasive do its job, it doesn't need you to try and push it through the surface, the weight of a cork block is enough, it doesn't need your body weight to make it work.
These skills didn't just happen overnight, I used off cuts of wood to practice my sanding, applying finish and polishing the applied finish. I tried different types of finish and how to apply them so if nothing else maybe you can open your minds and think outside of the box and wonder why I can get my finish with 3-5 coats and you need 30-50 as I have read in other pages.
Dikky, Simon, McCreed, Greg
Thanks heaps for sharing guys. I really appreciate learning what works for everyone.
For me, i like about 5or6 coats on the body and just 2or 3 on the neck (truoil)
On past builds and bought guitars i have always sanded back the neck so i can feel very smooth and close to the wood. I dont really care if it effects the look. I just want it to feel right.
Where i fall down is always on body preparation and how much or how little to sand between coats. I think it is all smooth then apply the colour only to find that it looks crap[emoji23] then i spend a few days fixing my oversight.
Then after i get all of the body prep right i start a nice clear coat and either dont do it right, it dries in a sand storm or after it dries i sand right through it [emoji23][emoji23].
Also i called the sandpaperman. Had a nice chat with a lady there.
She was super helpful in helping be find what i need on their site.
She explained that almost all of what i need is out of stock!
However on a positive note, there is a container on the wharf waiting for customs to release it and all of what i need is in that container[emoji31].
I actually did abuse the finish of my guitar with 0000 steel wool before seeing your comments guys. What a stuff up!
So i then rubbed it back with wet 1200 grit and let it dry then put another thin coat of TO on it. Fingers crossed.
Hope that container is released asap!
Hooray for guitars.
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More coats of Truoil over the past few days.
Looks like i may have recovered from the previous mishap with the 0000steelwool.
I think i am done as i have come to terms and am embracing my inconsistencies in finish which i will call character :)
.....and will now try and polish it up over the next week..........fingers crossed!
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The back of the body is where i sanded through in a couple of spots. the TO and the wood finish gone and now reveal a little bit of the natural wood colour.
Im gambling on the TO yellowing over time and this becoming less visible.
It has yellowed a bit on past builds so ???….. hoping it will do the same here.
Ive been advised by my daughter that the phoenix on the back of the headstock is ugly and has got to go.
The smaller phoenix that i have put at the base of the neck is to cover where i have made an ugly blemish by sanding too deep and filling it with wood stain.
The small phoenix was supposed to go at the back of the neck but now it is there….doh!
I really like how the front and sides have turned out so all in all im pretty chuffed with myself!
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