First build: secret model #6 - single cutaway guitar

Hi all,

Just ordered the kit for my first build ever.
It's one of the discontinued kits, a single cutaway guitar with mahogany neck and body, plus a flame maple veneer.

I have some initial finishing ideas in mind based on what I have read here, but would love your input. Please tell me if I'm doing something dumb. I am a big fan of the dyed/stained see-through look in general. On the other hand, I already have an ash 2-tone sunburst (54 reissue) Strat which is brownish/yellow, so I want something considerably different.

I'm thinking of a dyed/stained reddish look for the top. Planning on dyeing it with a really diluted black ubeaut water based dye to accentuate the flame, then going for the red.

Still unsure about the back/sides and neck. Again, I really like the transparent look and accentuating the wood grain, so my current plan is to fill the grain with ebony timbermate, sand it back, then either go for a lighter more natural (brownish?) look to contrast the top, or a mahogany/reddish stain so it's sort of closer to the top?

I am a bit lost on the choices of sanding sealer and top coats since there is a lot of conflicting info, so would greatly appreciate it if someone pointed me in a direction.

Will post an update as soon as the kit arrives.

Cheers

Hi and welcome brandfbr.

My 2 cents: As far as sanding sealer goes - I have not had much success with adding stain after some sanding sealers. So definitely test it on scrap wood. The Ubeaut sanding sealer is the one I now use, and it works well with the Ubeaut stains!

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Originally Posted by Trevor Davies

...As far as sanding sealer goes - I have not had much success with adding stain after some sanding sealers.

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1+

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Originally Posted by brandfbr

Just ordered the kit for my first build ever.
It's one of the discontinued kits, a single cutaway guitar with mahogany neck and body, plus a flame maple veneer.

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Welcome! Good call on a first kit. These are pretty nice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brandfbr

I'm thinking of a dyed/stained reddish look for the top. Planning on dyeing it with a really diluted black ubeaut water based dye to accentuate the flame, then going for the red.

Still unsure about the back/sides and neck. Again, I really like the transparent look and accentuating the wood grain, so my current plan is to fill the grain with ebony timbermate, sand it back, then either go for a lighter more natural (brownish?) look to contrast the top, or a mahogany/reddish stain so it's sort of closer to the top?

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The veneer is super thin and delicate. I should add that I am much better at messing up veneer than at staining it...but with that said... I would sand the veneer just as little as you can get away with. Using dark grain filler and sanding back is great for solid wood, but I would worry about going through the veneer. You really shouldn't need grain filler on maple anyway. On the sides and back, sure, but I'd be very careful with that top. For the same reason, you'll want to be very careful about accentuating the flame, particularly if it means doing any sanding. Just my non-expert thoughts.

Thanks Trevor. I think I will go with the ubeaut stain, then ubeaut sanding sealer then.

Febder3x: thanks for the heads up. I'll grain fill just the back and neck. Btw, I loved the finishes on your two teles... How hard and smelly did you find the tru-oil process? I live in a flat and have a totally closed garage (private, but little to no ventilation). I am wondering if water based poly is my only pathway or if I could get away with something like tru-oil.

TD has used Tru-oil more than I have. I have only experimented with it a bit. It does not have a lot of odor, and I did use it in my marginally ventilated garage. Here's the safety data sheet on it:

https://www.birchwoodcasey.com/conte...k%20Finish.pdf

Like pretty much any oil finish, it has petroleum based solvents that make it toxic. Probably not that bad, but you'd want to use it in a well ventilated space. My small experience with it suggests that it is easy to use, levels well and makes a nice shiny finish. It will also add a bit of amber color. One of my experiments was to see how it did over spray paint. It did fine ;-) Others may know if it gets deeper with age as some oils do, that's good or bad depending on your tastes and what you have under it ;-)

If you have seen my work-in-progress Tele project it's all garnet shellac and water based poly on the body. I like using shellac, but I found it hard to get even color out of the garnet shellac I was using. I won't use it again. The poly is General Finishes High Performance. I can get a decent finish out of it, but the main virtue of the products I use is low VOCs and toxicity. I really like the finishes that TD and others have gotten with Cabot's water based poly...but it ain't sold where I live. Pity, it looks about as safe as poly gets...

file:///C:/Users/rbeaulau/Downloads/...N_-AUS_GHS.pdf

...and it cures faster than what I am using.

FYI, I think the Ubeaut sanding sealer goes before the Ubeaut stain.

A few years ago, a member called Dozymuppet had a great result using diluted Ubeaut black, gently sanding back, and then adding the colour stain. FYI - beware of blue stain and tru-oil. The posts are:
https://www.buildyourownguitar.com.a...l=1#post209750

Also, I have had great success with Tru-oil. All my early builds used it until I moved to spraying. I applied it in the garage, and would move them inside after a couple of days (and was not too smelly!). I brushed on the first 2 coats, then I could add thin coats about 2 hours apart. I usually added 20+ thin coats. I found it very easy to use, worked in cold and warm climates, wasn't affected by humidity. It did require quite a bit of lint-free cloth, and gloves! I sanded lightly every 5 coats moving up from 400g to 2000g paper.

Funny thing you said that about the sanding sealer, I'm testing just that order stain/sanding sealer on some plywood I had laying around. Let's see what happens.

I'm planning on doing just that: dying it black, then sanding it and going with the red stain. I tried a very diluted version of black to avoid having to sand it back too much, but that didn't really highlight the grain and only gave a sort of grayish tinge to the whole thing. So, back to the original plan. I'll probably use maybe only 400 or 320 grit to avoid sanding through the veneer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brandfbr

I'm planning on doing just that: dying it black, then sanding it and going with the red stain. I tried a very diluted version of black to avoid having to sand it back too much, but that didn't really highlight the grain and only gave a sort of grayish tinge to the whole thing. So, back to the original plan. I'll probably use maybe only 400 or 320 grit to avoid sanding through the veneer.

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Take care with the sanding grits: most folks on this forum say not to use above 180g (though I go to 240!) paper if you intend to stain, as the higher grits tend to polish the wood which affects stain absorption.

I'll defer to TD's greater knowledge (and better finishes!) but I would be a bit leery of dying and sanding back the top. Those veneers are just so delicate. That could be just my paranoia talking tho... I do feel that veneers are out to get me.

For sanding, I use what my OEM Dye Stain website suggests as rules of thumb:

https://generalfinishes.com/wood-fin...ased-dye-stain

So following that rule, you'd use 220 on the top and 180 on the back and sides, although I am not convinced it makes a huge difference.

One thing I did with paulownia and will most likely do with mahogany, is to use a finer grit on end-grain...220 or 320...or even a bit higher. The reason is that end grain really soaks up the dye and it can get too dark. So with end-grain a little bit of a polishing effect can keep it from soaking in too much dye. I don't think this is necessary with closed grain woods like maple, but for open grain woods I think it helps to keep the color even.

+1 for:
"... I would be a bit leery of dying and sanding back the top. Those veneers are just so delicate."

The MBM-1 I'm working on now is my first kit with a veneer top. So basically, I have NO knowledge about them:confused: