Thanks, i didn't see that one in my forum hunts, but its in something of the same territory. Its not just the width of the centreblock, its the strength too that concerns me. I wonder if it crushes slightly under load and that's why posts loosen.
Thanks, i didn't see that one in my forum hunts, but its in something of the same territory. Its not just the width of the centreblock, its the strength too that concerns me. I wonder if it crushes slightly under load and that's why posts loosen.
You may be right. The center block in a Gibson is harder wood...
https://youtu.be/zEiiDa0twNM
...Not sure what's in the center of ours, but it's much lighter. Seems even lighter and more fibrous than basswood. Virola maybe? It ain't maple or mahogany, that's for sure. It seems fairly soft as well so you may be right. That said, my "north" posts have mounted solidly. The ones that have spun in their holes have been "south". I blame that on the hole not being 100% over the center block. So most of my beef with the center block is that it's not wide enough to accommodate many mods or even slight deviations from the factory.
I put most of the blame on the bridge design. These bridges should work best on T-Birds that are flat and made of hardwood. But there are lots of reports on them pulling out.
Some of the blame also goes to geometry and the curved surface of the ES. The back end of the bridge may need to be jacked up pretty high and it's a formula for problems. That's particularly a problem on a 34" scale bass since it puts the bridge well into the curve.
Almost all mfgs solve this problem by using string tension to push the bridge into the top of the bass. Usually this means using a two point bridge with either a stop tailpiece (Warwick, Ibanez, some Gibsons) or a trapeze (Hofner, Fender, Gretch, Kay...)
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So that this is not all doom and gloom... I am building a 2nd one of these because of two things I really like about them. They have the advantages of a semi hollow but they are MUCH lighter than a Gibson semi hollow. I have a hollow thin line guitar. It's great, but temp or humidity fluctuations will make it go out of tune. Can't really play it outside here in Florida. Also it's prone to feedback. Not sure what the wood is in the middle of this thing, but I don't have those problems and light is not all bad ;-)
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I've acquired a Hipshot bridge from the chap who I got the kit from, so that will go on. He got some longer posts for it, but I think I may investigate putting some threaded sockets in so there's something a bit more mechanical. I've filled the holes with epoxy and microfibres and will redrill them so hopefully that will stabilise the wood a bit. I'm also scraping a flat in the body between the three bridge holes so the bridge will be sitting down firmly on the wood. To my surprise I haven't gone through the veneer yet and I'm well on the way to getting an acceptable surface. I guess the advantage of the 3 point bridge is that it doesn't contact the body so can go on a curved surface.
Firstly one of the predrilled holes was several millimetres out of position. Far enough that I don't think even the stock bridge would have worked. As I'd already filled the holes with a high strength moderate flexibility epoxy mix this wasn't a significant issue.
The threaded sockets didn't work for me. Various youtube posts advocate a special jig to make damned sure the things can't go in crooked. I went a good way towards this, installing them with a long bolt so I could monitor the alignment, but they still went in sufficiently cockeyed so there was no way the bridge could be persuaded to fit on the machine screws. so out they had to come. I also didn't like local distortion of the wood as they went in. The veneer somewhat bowed up. If I were to use them again I would countersink several mm so they don't grip the wood until some way under the surface of the guitar. Now I think of it tapering the hole would also be worth considering. I think the threads would grip more cleanly. I'd also buy several spares and practice installing them in scrap wood and make the damn jig. I still think they *ought* to be the solution, but they do need to be carefully considered - perhaps only worth considering if you have experience of their idiosyncrasies.
So, anyway, feeling considerably detuned, I filled the holes with high strength epoxy/fibres again, and decided to have a go with the much longer posts I was given. Nervous about both accuracy and the state of the surface, I elected not to attempt an interference fit, especially as the posts I had have rather rounded blunt splines, and I'd have been much happier to see them sharp. Instead they are a reasonable push fit, and glued in with another epoxy/microfibres mix. Candlewax was deployed to stop the epoxy getting in the threads from the bottom, and the screws were dipped in it as well. Its currently curing with the bridge in place, so I know the bridge will fit. Cross your fingers for me that glue hasn't escaped all my plastic and masking tape, and that this not altogether satisfactory installation will prove to be strong enough.
My current thinking is that were I to do another one it would have to come with the bridge undrilled. I would probably go for a Fender style bridge on a flat surface, suitably shimmed for height, but I also think the string through body and trapeze tailpiece options others have gone for are likely to be equally satisfactory. If I hadn't had the Hipshot bridge available at a discount price that's probably the way I would have gone. A wider neck at the heel so that one had a greater choice of bridges would be no bad thing either.
I strongly encourage Pitbull to modify the kit for through body or trapeze tailpiece. I think more people will get a better result.
I could not agree more.Originally Posted by JimC
I feel your pain, brother. I have had to re-drill these holes on both my ESB-4 basses. On my current project I had to drill twice. If you have to do it, two holes is easier than three... but either way, you need a jig. The curves really make this a lot more difficult because it is so hard to tell when the bit is going in vertically.
The MOST important thing is not to cant toward either F-hole. What worked best for me was to build a hole template out of 1" or at least 3/4" plywood drilled with a drill press. Put one hole in, preferably the center hole. Put a dowel in the hole to hold the template in place to drill the other two.
I don't blame you for wanting to use the bridge you have. They look like great bridges if you can get it to attach properly. It may not be hopeless even if you have to use long posts. You should be able to use it string though, which will help keep it from pulling out. That was originally what I intended to do with the stock bridge...but the combination of poor quality and the "south" hole not being totally on top of the center block ended that plan. You have a much better quality bridge, and hopefully it will be better placed over the center block.
I have also learned the hard way that you are right about the screws and ferrules. They are made of pot metal and the threads damage super easily.
The unforgiving camera from end on reveals that the bridge isn't sitting quite so flat to the body as I had hoped: a bit more scraping required. From above its fairly clear how much the holes were mislocated. There's a small area in the centre where the veneer has been scraped through, but its much less than I had feared. The bridge will cover most of the sins round the post holes, but there's some I shall just put up with. No doubt a clever paint/dye/colour scheme would disguise it completely, but that requires a clever finisher!
Ah! You are using threaded inserts like these, right?
I think that's going to work. Maybe not perfectly flat yet, but pretty close. Looks like you are on the right track.
I tried with these
Which were locally available, but not ideal, I've abandoned them. What's in there at the moment are somewhat similar to the stock posts, but about twice the length. The inserts you show look better, I like the length and the more gradual taper.
Tonight's project is juggling the neck angle...
These are actually the ones I have. I got them on Amazon...
Worked in my tests. Went another way with the build so I haven't sued them... Let me know if you have trouble sourcing them. If you are not going to use the bridge string-through, I would really recommend using something like them, even if it is not aesthetically perfect on the top, you won't see them because they'll be under the bridge.
Alternatively, I think you'll be safe using the ferrules that come with the bridge with just vertical splines as long if you set up the bridge for string-through.
The only downside to string-through that I have found so far is that you have to make sure to get strings that are long enough--particularly the E string.
Last edited by fender3x; 10-10-2019 at 03:12 AM.
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