12th fret to Bridge/Saddles is longer than 12th Fret to Nut - WTF?

[Gavin1393]

Quote from Gavin1393 on April 21, 2013, 18:51

This might not be an issue and in fact is probably one of the most frequently asked questions . it's great that you have done a mock build before getting going as this will always point to where problems are or where issues will be covered by a pickguard so aren't that important. Often we will pick up a comment on the forum where someone is about to hack away at the neck, body, pickup routings, pickguard etc. because they assume the distance from the 12th fret to the nut and to the bridge should be exactly the same. This isn't the case as one might expect because you need to compensate for the strings. For this reason you will see an angled saddle on an acoustic guitar. The thicker the strings, the greater the distance from the 12th fret the saddle will be if intonation is set correctly. Being an acoustic builder you get one chance at getting the bridge in the right spot. Get it wring then you have to go through the process of removing strings, breaking the glue's grip on the bridge and soundboards and starting again. This is probably why i am so meticulous with this when building an acoustic. Probably also why i dont stress much with building electrics since the bridge only needs to be there-abouts and you can still get great intonation. So before you rush out and start thiñking about modifications you actually dont need to make can you please take some measurements and post the results of those measurements on this thread? I need these measurements in order to help you.

The first measurement I need is for you to measure from the FRET-WIRE of the 12th FRET,to the point where, if you ran your finger along the strings, you would touch the nut. Hence you are measuring the nut from the 'bridge side of the nut rather than from the 'Headstock' side of the nut.

The second measurement I need is from the same point on the 12th FRET,that is, measure from the FRET-WIRE of the 12th FRET. I first want you to use a screw drive and wind the saddles on the bridge as far forward (towards the pickups) as they will go. When you have done this please measure the distance from the saddles to the 12th Fret.

Secondly, I would like you to wind the saddles away from the pickups as far back as they will go. Please re-measure the distance from the saddles to the 12th Fret.

Please provide me with those measurements exactly as they are and I will then try and assist you.

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[glenno3228]

I haven't yet got to the gluing of the neck as the weather has slowed progress on the finishing of the guitar and neck. Whilst continuing to ruminate over this one I decided to go to the video again. In the glued in neck video Adam mentions that its important to get the distance from the nut to the 12th exactly the same as the distance from the saddle to 12th (and adds there is some wriggle room but ensure you are as near as to the front edge). Hence my concern and the query. Possibly why there are others also worry about this.

I know Adam is updating the videos. It might be worth considering how best to describe this for nuffies like me who take things literally. I assume there are some tolerances that could be provided as a guide.

Cheers
Glenn

[Gavin1393]

Hi Glenn

If you follow my article above you wont go wrong. i think Adam may update the video to contain this information. It is important to know that the video's were made prior to Luthiers like DingoBass and myself coming onboard. This is the reason for the forum too, to hopefully provide the latest information n techniques, solving problems and finishing the guitar. I dont think we would have all discovered Wudtone if it wasnt for the forum.

Your point about the video creating confusion and doubt is correct so look out for video version 2!

Gav

[keloooe]

Gav, maybe you should star in the intonation / setup video, and use the techniques that you posted in that massive thread!!!

[Gavin1393]

Would love to but my exclusive contract with Pixar would forbid this...

[Gavin1393]

Neck measurement video here...

http://pitbullguitars.com/?page_id=36#mg_ld_2553

[tomolsson]

Hi Gavin,

I have an ES-1GT kit and the mock assembly gives me the following measurements:
- Bridge side of the nut to the crown of the 12th fret: 313mm
- Crown of the 12th fret to the bottom E string saddle wound all the way forward/wound all the way back: 320mm/326mm
- Crown of 12th fret to the top E string saddle wound all the way forward/wound all the way back: 317mm/323mm

These measurements are with the neck as far into the neck slot as it will go and that actually means that the neck pick-up does not quite fit and I will need to shave a couple of mm's out of the side of the pick-up hole so that the pick-up sits nicely.

Is this something to worry about?

Thanks for any advice.

Tom

[laurieb]

I am having a problem setting the intonation on a 5 string fretless bass kit.
nut to 12 pos. marker is 418mm if I then set the b string adjuster at 418mm the earth wire hole is exposed by 12mm.
saddle to 12 pos. mark all the way forward is 415mm.
saddle to 12 pos. mark all the way back is 435mm.
I hope that this is the information you require, any help would be greatly appreciated.

yours laurieb.

[wokkaboy]

Hi Laurie, welcome to the forum, is this a 5 string jazz bass fretless kit ?
You need to measure to the centre of the 12th fret wire, not the dot marker, if you have measured to the marker then please post distances to centre of 12th fret wire.
Usually there needs to be compensation for string widths so distances 12th fret to saddle will be more than nut to 12th fret.

[wazkelly]

With a 34" scale the nut to crown of 12th fret should measure 17" and from there another 17" to middle of saddle for G String.

As each string gets thicker the saddles have to be moved back to lengthen the string.....this is called compensation.

I have just taken a couple of shots of my EX-5 bridge where Low B saddle is about 5mm further away from the nut when compared to G string. Being such a low frequency these things are hard to tune and intonate if using an electronic tuner and you may need to tweak things a bit through tuning by ear.