Matte Finish

[a_novice]

Quick question, i'm applying a black matte spray can and have matte clear as well. I've read that you can't / shouldn't spray multiple coats of matte clear and it should always be glossy first and only the last spray being the matte. Is that true??

If i don't use any glossy first and just spray a few coats of matte clear, should i level sand the black first or just leave everything?

Should i rub the final matte coat with anything, like 0000 steel wool or will it be nice and flat anyway?

Thanks.

[robsmith]

Personally I wouldn't use any gloss on what is going to be a finished with matte paint, this is "just in case" the two finishes don't play well.
A gentle flatting between the final paint coat and the first varnish/lacquer will help to get rid of the little bits of whatever that arrive by magic.
As to wire woolling after the final lacquer coat - only you can tell, but would be worthwhile if there are any nibs or obvious "too flat"/"too glossy" patches.

[a_novice]

Thanks Rob...when you say gentle flattening, what is the best way to do that? Would the matte clear coat only be 2 or 3 coats then and not like a gloss clear coat because there is no wet sanding and buffing??

[McCreed]

I've read that you can't / shouldn't spray multiple coats of matte clear and it should always be glossy first and only the last spray being the matte. Is that true??

No, not IMO or IME. Satin poly has been my preferred finish on necks the past few years and I spray 12 coats (with a gun) and they come up great. Not sure why you would put gloss under satin (or matte). However I have applied gloss over satin on the face of headstock for aesthetic reasons.

If i don't use any glossy first and just spray a few coats of matte clear, should i level sand the black first or just leave everything?

If you have orange peel or other defects in the colour coat, then I would suggest levelling it, but go any finer than P320. You need to abrade the surface as well as level so the top coat will mechanically bond. So don't "polish".
The clear coat will more or less "follow" the topography of what's under it. That said, a matte top coat will be more forgiving than going for a high gloss. Especially with black. If the colour coat is already pretty flat (level) you may not need to sand.

Should i rub the final matte coat with anything, like 0000 steel wool or will it be nice and flat anyway?

I avoid having to do anything to the final coat of a satin finish. As soon as you start rubbing it with any abrasive it loses it's natural appearance IMO. More than once I have applied "the last coat" several times in order to achieve as near to perfect as I can get.

And last but probably MOST IMPORTANT: DO NOT USE STEEL WOOL!!!
I don't even keep it in my shed let alone let it near a guitar. Use synthetic sanding pads. They're available in a range of abrasive grades as well as an equivalent to 0000 steel wool. Brands available in Australia (don't know where you're located) are 3M, BearTex and Norton.

The small steel fibres inevitably get into your finish coats not to mention getting into pickups and electronics and raising holy hell.
There have been cases of steel wool fibres being responsible for killing pickups. So NEVER use steel wool to polish your frets on a finished, fully assembled guitar. Or simply EVER.

[a_novice]

Thanks for the info McCreed.

Its interesting because i was reading that applying too many coats of satin or matte leaves the finish 'cloudy'...and people suggested putting gloss under, then finishing with the matte spray at the end.

Reason i ask is that i'm doing a PBG Iceman, which is matte black with a large coloured decal on the face and headstock...so was starting to think if i can't use multiple coats of matte clear then i wasn't sure what i was going to do.

The neck is also all black and its come up relatively smooth so pretty happy with that. The body may need a very light levelling but keen not to sand where i don't have to.

The many coats of clear are to bury the decal (given i can't wet sand like i would normally) but i think i'll create a decal that covers the entire headstock with it being mainly transparent but my logo so i don't have to worry about that problem.

I just using spray cans...trying the Loop paint for something different (usually use the SCA brand which has worked well in the past).

Good info on the steel wool. I've used it but only on an all TruOil finish before, otherwise just wet sanding and buffing.

[McCreed]

Its interesting because i was reading that applying too many coats of satin or matte leaves the finish 'cloudy'...and people suggested putting gloss under, then finishing with the matte spray at the end.

I suppose it could if it were really thick, but that has not been my experience. I would also say that the amount of coat thickness you will achieve with rattle cans (even 2 or 3) would not be enough to have that effect.

The many coats of clear are to bury the decal (given i can't wet sand like i would normally) but i think i'll create a decal that covers the entire headstock with it being mainly transparent but my logo so i don't have to worry about that problem.

One, I think a decal that large can present it's own set of problems, and two, you can still level sand the matte poly once the decal is buried. Just be very meticulous when you apply the "last coat" so you don't need to touch it after it's sprayed.

[a_novice]

I usually use 2 or 3 SCA cans so sounds like it should be ok.

Yeah i'm a bit worries about using large decals but the effect i'm going for on the body requires it so it will be very tricky. But i think the result, if i can get right, will look awesome so its going to be a learning curve. Can always take the decal off :-)

When you level sand the matte, is it just the same way as normal, wet sand with say 360 up to say 800 just to get it all level then do a last spray?

[McCreed]

When you level sand the matte, is it just the same way as normal, wet sand with say 360 up to say 800 just to get it all level then do a last spray?

No, not wet sanding. Wet sanding will polish. See my second paragraph three posts up (#4).

[a_novice]

Ahh, got it, so something no finer than 360 and dry sand just to level off enough before spraying clear...cool. Thanks heaps McCreed for the advice, very helpful! Now i just need to work on the best way to do my large decal! It will be broken into 4 pieces to be more manageable but has its own challenges of lining up correctly, no wrinkles and working with the cavities which cause cause it to sink and pull....well i guess thats the fun part of building your own guitar :-)