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Thread: First Build - PSH-1 Hollowbody

  1. #21
    GAStronomist Simon Barden's Avatar
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    Some of that action height is because the nut slots are high, and that brings the action up. I'd fit a capo on the first fret (or tape the strings down well if you've no capo) to give a more realistic impression.

    As Trevor says, you need to check the neck relief as well. I'd start off with the neck flat, then the tension of the two strings fitted will add in probably just enough relief to make it like it would be after being set up.

    The bridge looks like its probably as low an adjustable type as you are going to get, so if the action still looks high, then you will need to adjust the neck angle.

    I'd first check that the bottom of the heel and the floor of the neck pocket are about as level as they can be. It doesn't take much for a bump or lump near the neck end to angle the neck downwards.

    After that, it's definitely down to adjusting the neck angle.

    Looking at the pictures the neck heel tenon is roughly 1/3 of the distance from the neck end of the body to the bridge. So if you raise the body end of the tenon up by 1mm, the strings will be approx. 3mm higher at the bridge if run flat along the neck.

    If you can run a straight edge along the neck to the bridge and work out how much the strings will need to move to come up to the saddles, then you should be able to divide that height by 3 to work out how much the end of the tenon needs to be raised by.

    The safest way to do this is to make or buy a shim the length of the heel tenon. Not the easiest thing to make as it will be very thin. Unless you feel confident about cutting a thin wedge from a solid block of wood, its easiest to use two or three of pieces of standard thin veneer (0.6-0.7mm thick) and sand it down (using double sided tape to hold things down is recommended). I'd use maple veneer if possible as it's pretty strong and will match the neck wood.

    You could make a basic jig up like drawn below.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0971 (2).jpg 
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ID:	42159

    If you want a shim that is 1mm high on one end, then stick a 2mm high block on some wood double the length of the shim away from the edge (block is always 2x the required shim end height).

    Use double sided tape to stick the basic shim to the wood so it touches the edge of the wood.

    Use double sided tape to stick some sandpaper on another bit of flat wood, so that you can run it back and forth and sand the shim down, but don't put the sandpaper on all the length as you don't want to sand the 2mm block down as well!

    Sand away, and when the sandpaper reaches the end of the bottom block of wood, you're done.

    This is going to leave a very thin and fragile shim, so you may want to make it one layer of veneer thicker throughout. In this case stick a layer of veneer on or under the 2mm block, and stop sanding when there is just one layer of veneer left at the end of the bottom block. Marking the wood you want to sand away is recommended, to help stop over-sanding.

    The shim can then be glued to the base of the pocket and once dried, the neck can be glued on. I'd recommend doing this as a 2-step process to avoid the shim being squeezed out under pressure if you tried to glue the neck and shim on at the same time.

    You could of course use a single thin block of maple for the shim, but the veneer is probably easier to get hold of.

    You can change the angle the heel directly, but it's harder to do accurately, and easier to get it wrong or introduce a sideways angle on the heel as well.

    If a shim goes wrong, you can make another and another until it's right. If you get the neck heel angle wrong, you quickly run out of neck heel to adjust!

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Barden View Post
    Some of that action height is because the nut slots are high, and that brings the action up. I's fit a capo on the first fret (or tape the strings down well if you've no capo) to give a more realistic impression.

    As Trevor says, you need to check the neck relief as well. I'd start off with the neck flat, then the tension of the two strings fitted will add in probably just enough relief to make it like it would be after being set up.

    The bridge looks like its probably as low an adjustable type as you are going to get, so if the action still looks high, then you will need to adjust the neck angle.

    I'd first check that the bottom of the heel and the floor of the neck pocket are about as level as they can be. It doesn't take much for a bump or lump near the neck end to angle the neck downwards.

    After that, it's definitely down to adjusting the neck angle.

    Looking at the pictures the neck heel tenon is roughly 1/3 of the distance from the neck end of the body to the bridge. So if you raise the body end of the tenon up by 1mm, the strings will be approx. 3mm higher at the bridge if run flat along the neck.

    If you can run a straight edge along the neck to the bridge and work out how much the strings will need to move to come up to the saddles, then you should be able to divide that height by 3 to work out how much the end of the tenon needs to be raised by.

    The safest way to do this is to make or buy a shim the length of the heel tenon. Not the easiest thing to make as it will be very thin. Unless you feel confident about cutting a thin wedge from a solid block of wood, its easiest to use two or three of pieces of standard thin veneer (0.6-0.7mm thick) and sand it down (using double sided tape to hold things down is recommended). I'd use maple veneer if possible as it's pretty strong and will match the neck wood.

    You could make a basic jig up like drawn below.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0971 (2).jpg 
Views:	118 
Size:	311.3 KB 
ID:	42159

    If you want a shim that is 1mm high on one end, then stick a 2mm high block on some wood double the length of the shim away from the edge (block is always 2x the required shim end height).

    Use double sided tape to stick the basic shim to the wood so it touches the edge of the wood.

    Use double sided tape to stick some sandpaper on another bit of flat wood, so that you can run it back and forth and sand the shim down, but don't put the sandpaper on all the length as you don't want to sand the 2mm block down as well!

    Sand away, and when the sandpaper reaches the end of the bottom block of wood, you're done.

    This is going to leave a very thin and fragile shim, so you may want to make it one layer of veneer thicker throughout. In this case stick a layer of veneer on or under the 2mm block, and stop sanding when there is just one layer of veneer left at the end of the bottom block. Marking the wood you want to sand away is recommended, to help stop over-sanding.

    The shim can then be glued to the base of the pocket and once dried, the neck can be glued on. I'd recommend doing this as a 2-step process to avoid the shim being squeezed out under pressure if you tried to glue the neck and shim on at the same time.

    You could of course use a single thin block of maple for the shim, but the veneer is probably easier to get hold of.

    You can change the angle the heel directly, but it's harder to do accurately, and easier to get it wrong or introduce a sideways angle on the heel as well.

    If a shim goes wrong, you can make another and another until it's right. If you get the neck heel angle wrong, you quickly run out of neck heel to adjust!
    Thanks Simon - I am going to see if can buy a shim from some where as finding maple veneer is pretty tough.


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  3. #23

    First Build - PSH-1 Hollowbody

    Day 3 - not going well. When checking the neck relief I realised that the neck at first fret wasn’t straight and hence the first fret was low causing a a bit of rock back on forward further up the neck using the straight edge. I went to re-level the fret but fear I have lowered the middle frets too low as when recrowing I see can see a groove in the fret which I think Is caused by lowering the fret too much and the crowning file cutting in at the base of the fret. Have I killed this neck ????


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    Last edited by mrpearson; 19-12-2021 at 08:13 AM.

  4. #24



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  5. #25
    Overlord of Music McCreed's Avatar
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    ...had a bit of rock back on forward using the straight edge. Now when recrowing I see can see a groove in the fret which I think Is caused by lowering the fret too much.
    Can you elaborate please? I'm having trouble completely understanding the issue (the "rock back on forward" is what's confusing me).

    If it's just one fret that's too low, you buy some suitable fret wire and just replace it. Then level the one new fret to match the adjacent ones.
    Another option, which is way extreme IMO, is re-level all the frets to accommodate the low one. This would be a last resort though. There may be other options but I need to understand the problem better.
    Making the world a better place; one guitar at a time...

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by McCreed View Post
    Can you elaborate please? I'm having trouble completely understanding the issue (the "rock back on forward" is what's confusing me).

    If it's just one fret that's too low, you buy some suitable fret wire and just replace it. Then level the one new fret to match the adjacent ones.
    Another option, which is way extreme IMO, is re-level all the frets to accommodate the low one. This would be a last resort though. There may be other options but I need to understand the problem better.
    Re. Rocking. Had a straight edge and a fret rocker tool which were not sitting flat and pressing down on one end it would rock which lead me to believe there was a high fret as the first fret was lower than the rest. I think that my lowering the other frets I have taken too much off the top of a whole bunch of frets. I now cannot get nice round top on the fret with my crowing tool. To be honest installing fret wire is out of my comfort zone if this is the fix.


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  7. #27
    Member jonwhitear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpearson View Post
    I went to re-level the fret but fear I have lowered the middle frets too low as when recrowing I see can see a groove in the fret which I think Is caused by lowering the fret too much and the crowning file cutting in at the base of the fret. Have I killed this neck ????
    That looks to me like your crowing file isn't wide enough for the frets. I'm looking at the end profile of the fret that has tape on both sides, and I can see a groove on the left hand side.

    I find fret work the scariest part of this business. On my last build, I also had a first fret that was a little lower than the other because of a slight bow at the end of the neck. I ended up levelling them all to match, by which time the flats on the fret tops were quite wide and obvious. In other words, I think you can take quite a lot off without ruining the neck.

  8. #28
    GAStronomist Simon Barden's Avatar
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    From the photo I’d agree that the fret crowning file is too narrow for the frets as it’s leaving a flat ridge where the bottom of the file ends. It’s probably meant for thinner frets, such as on a uke or mandolin. You should want one thats got a slot about 2.5mm wide.

    I get maple veneer from Amazon of eBay by looking for marquetry veneer. Normally about A4 sized sheets, or just under. Can slso be found in marquetry packs.

  9. #29
    GAStronomist Simon Barden's Avatar
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    Sounds like you may need some external help to redo the frets. I wonder if there are any Perth-based builders on here who would be prepared to re-level and profile the frets for you?

  10. #30
    Overlord of Music McCreed's Avatar
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    You guys have better powers of observation than me! I totally missed the misshaped fret. Now I can't not see it!

    There are ways of crowning effectively with a file that has too small a radius (can actually be done with a flat file) but it's not an approach I would recommend for a first-timer. I think Simon's suggestion of finding someone that can rescue it is a good idea.
    Making the world a better place; one guitar at a time...

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