I'd suggest a veneer and inlay into the veneer. You could do the inlay with the veneer off the headstock (so you only waste a bit of veneer if it goes wrong) and then stick the inlaid veneer on the headstock. You've also got more control over the inlay depth as well, as it's the depth of the veneer, so you only need to worry about the outline. You could probably cut that out of the veneer with a scalpel. You'd have to cut small pieces out of veneer to fill in the middle of Os and As etc.
I had actually considered doing that, and I think it would work pretty well. I'd probably try and make a veneer from some leftover tassy oak from the body build. I'm going to try the brass wire route first, and might stain the inlay darker to see if that fixes things. The brass wire would fix a bunch of issues including the bad edge gaps and contrast/legibility problems.
Nice work mate. You've got some skills !!
Hi Jim! Welcome to the forum! And thanks for the kind words, maybe one day I'll have skill, but today I have only passion. Passion, and an unsettling habit of absolutely sending it.Originally Posted by Jim De Bressac
After a significant amount of time spent in the Idiot Lab™ testing a bunch of different materials and methods, I concede defeat on the wire inlay front. The gauge of wire I was looking at for the right looking thickness was around 23 to 26 gauge, around the 0.5mm mark. I tried regular round wire and had some success, but getting it to stay flat was almost impossible.. Flat wire (around 0.6 x 4mm) seemed promising, but I couldn't get anything that was malleable enough to work on the tight corners. Flat silver wire would probably work, but I didn't want to fork out for something that I might not be able to get working.
In the end I decided to carve a small channel around the lettering with scalpels. I found that the round scalpel was the best for this, as you could roll it around corners follow curves easier. It looks awful up close.
I bought the cheapest two part clear epoxy at the big green shed, I think it was about $2.50. I mixed it together with a drop of the same black craft paint I used on the body and slathered it on. After a while I pared it away with a super sharp chisel. I was testing on some scrap wood, but decided screw it, there's nothing else I can think to fix this inlay up so I may as well just put it down. Turns out I put wayyy too much paint in the mix. It screwed with the epoxy setting time by a huge amount, so it took a few hours to set off properly.
Since the test seemed successful, I painstakingly carved out the rest of the channels and mixed a new batch, this time more epoxy and way less paint. I was worried there wasn't enough paint in there as the mix was still slightly translucent, but I laid it down anyway. I scraped the wet mix with a flat edge, and it came out great.
Once it's completely dry I'll probably take to the whole headstock with a razor. I may need to do another epoxy mix as this sunk a bit, I probably should have left the excess on the channels and then sanded back later, but I didn't want it too thick. And it's super easy to do if I need to do it again.
I know it's not perfect, but it really helps the legibility of the logo. I should be able to hard wipe on some black/blue paint to the headstock and keep the legibility of the logo now. So... I think I saved it.
And the body is at 27 coats of wipe on poly. I'll finish tomorrow at 30, I think that will be the end of it, then I'll leave it hanging somewhere safe for 3-4 weeks before wet sanding. I'll probably start at 800 grit and see how that works. There's some trouble spots but thankfully mostly under the pickguard. I'm apprehensive about the edges and corners, but I'll go slow and see how it goes.
You can see an area on the horn that is a lot lighter. I did a not super hard 400 grit sand trying to fix some small problem spots at around 15 coats, and it went straight through to the wood there. Really not sure why, as the same pressure on the rest of the guitar didn't do that.. So that's a concern. But I left it since like I said, nobody will see that with the pickguard on.
I'm planning to paint the cavities with a flat black once the clear coat is cured, then hit them with a light brushed on coat of clear to seal them. I bought a tin of spray poly for the neck, so I'll be spraying that. Maybe. I'm not happy with how long it's taken to finish this body, not even including the hardening time.
Last edited by ross.pearson; 21-08-2021 at 05:31 PM.
All looking good and kudos for persevering with the inlay. No, it's not perfect, but it's pretty good. The real test will be what it looks like with the paint on.
If you are going to foil screen the cavities, there's not a lot of point painting them. Could just save a bit of time. Or else use a graphite screening paint for the black. Or just go straight for a gloss black and do it matt + clear in one go!
Sand through is never normally logical. Somehow the finish is thinner there, or the wood surface just a bit more raised than the surrounding area, despite you putting the same amount of finish on or sanding the body flat. Both my GST-1 and Harley Benton JB builds have been plagued by sand-throughs, which along with a poor UK summer with lots of rain, has really slowed my builds down.
Your logo may not be perfect now, but I reckon you'll get it near there if you keep going the way you're going! Good work!
14-21 days is generally long enough with polyurethane, but there are always variables like coat thickness and environmental conditions to consider. The "sniff test" is a good standard.I think that will be the end of it, then I'll leave it hanging somewhere safe for 3-4 weeks before wet sanding. I'll probably start at 800 grit and see how that works. There's some trouble spots but thankfully mostly under the pickguard. I'm apprehensive about the edges and corners, but I'll go slow and see how it goes.
IME, with hand-applied poly, you might be able to start with 1000 or 1200. You don't get orange peel like you can with spraying so it may not require much levelling to get a nice gloss.
As for the corners and edges, I recommend either just lightly touching them or not touching them at all (unless there is a significant defect that needs addressing).
It's the larger flat areas that reflect the the most light (ie: gloss) and when you do the final polishing and buffing, it should be enough to shine up the small radiused areas.
Those same areas always seem to have the thinnest layer of finish on them and are notorious for sand-through. When I spray my finishes, I always make passes with a focus on my edges and they can still be problematic.
Good point from Simon there, and one I was also going to comment on. I would add that regardless of the shielding method, it wouldn't hurt to seal the cavities with a few coats of shellac or poly before wet sanding. It just prevents any absorption of water and potential swelling of the wood. There shouldn't copious amounts of water getting in the cavities, but better safe than sorry IMO.If you are going to foil screen the cavities, there's not a lot of point painting them.
Last edited by McCreed; 21-08-2021 at 06:49 PM.
Making the world a better place; one guitar at a time...
And a good point from McCreed.
I'm so used to spraying, where the cavities get coated in the finish, that I mentally exclude other methods of finish application, where it depends on whether you've run the finish into the cavities or not.
Guys, thanks for the comments. Here's to hoping the whole package looks good in the end.
I don't know why I blanked on shielding the cavities, but yeah, that needs to be done. I'll almost definitely be painting with graphite rather than using foil. I could buy some, but I've seen some videos about making your own... and I think you guys might have enough of an idea about how I like to do things...
Yeah, that sand through gave me the absolute sh*ts, I'd been so careful. I'm just happy it will be hidden. Anywhere else on the body and I'd have scraped the finish off and started again. Also it still kind of matches the aesthetic, so eeeeeeh.
Glad I'm not the only one though, definitely something to watch out for next time.
I'll definitely leave it 21 days as a minimum, I've come this far, I don't want to ruin it now. Sniff test might work but I have issues with "sniff" due to some serious sinus and allergy issues. I'm sure poly that isn't cured will get through the blockade though.
I've got some bespoke orange peeling in a couple of spots around the inclusions, where I tried to push poly in to fill them better, plus some issues around the horn where I didn't realise I'd overshot the edge and forgot to wipe down the front last, so had a tiny amount run away from me. Yes, I somehow managed to make Wipe On Poly more problematic than I should have.
It also picked up a random ding in the front around 18-19 coats (I think the old guy accidentally hit it with something). So the very last coat will just be on the front and will have a tiny pool to fill whats left of that ding. So I'll need to scrape that back at least.
Sanding is gonna be interesting. Glad I didn't invest a lot (anything) into materials for the finish, but still aiming for the best results I can get.
Already planning the next one. Send help.
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